Reply to: As you were, for now.

[Lance]

it does if you are doing fixed price work and don’t have complete control over acceptance criteria, seen that (it wasn’t me thank God) never again..

Fixed price... yes I agree..
Every time I offer fixed price the client thinks (correctly) that I'll add more $$$$ to cover those additional risks. So they refuse it.

[Paralytic]

EDIT: US version?????? Have you no taste???

I’ve watched the original series a couple of times.

[eek]

yes. But's a financial risk of the client/agency going bust. Not a financial risk of you running your business.
I'm just not sure that the financial risk element works for PSCs an in IR35 context.

it does if you are doing fixed price work and don’t have complete control over acceptance criteria, seen that (it wasn’t me thank God) never again..

[Lance]

Four weeks on site, four weeks of travel and accommodation expense, client or agency goes bust, no pay. Therefore, negative profit. Outside IR35 lends itself to that - almost a self-fulfilling prophecy compared to Inside if you like.

yes. But's a financial risk of the client/agency going bust. Not a financial risk of you running your business.
I'm just not sure that the financial risk element works for PSCs an in IR35 context.

[LondonManc]

financial risk requries to be at risk of losing money (ie. negative profit), not losing revenue. And no, accountancy fees and salary don't count.

Four weeks on site, four weeks of travel and accommodation expense, client or agency goes bust, no pay. Therefore, negative profit. Outside IR35 lends itself to that - almost a self-fulfilling prophecy compared to Inside if you like.

[Lance]

Financial risk? Just thinking aloud. Employees being binned would be protected / get redundancy. Although where I am at the moment, binning contractors and keeping perms would offer a substantial saving - I'm just waiting for the hammer to fall

financial risk requries to be at risk of losing money (ie. negative profit), not losing revenue. And no, accountancy fees and salary don't count.

[Lance]

Not me - my client has no idea I now spend half my day watching old episodes of The Office US on the Comedy channel.

if you can prove that in a tax tribunal, and that it is "not being controlled" rather than ripping off your client then you're good
Wouldn't it be marvelous if all it took was to prove to the tax man that you're taking money for doing f*** all to get you slam dunk outside?


EDIT: US version?????? Have you no taste???

[SussexSeagull]

This. Permies have been able to work from home at their own pace for many years. Even using their own kit in some cases. Thinking that is a defense is typical permietractor stuff.

I was hoping this whole legislation would have got every contractor past that thinking by now.

I think working off site probably was a defence when I started contracting a decade ago but it has become more and more commonplace since.

[mondeoman]

How does that put you outside if others are fired at the same time..

Financial risk? Just thinking aloud. Employees being binned would be protected / get redundancy. Although where I am at the moment, binning contractors and keeping perms would offer a substantial saving - I'm just waiting for the hammer to fall

[Paralytic]

Arguably, now that everyone *has* to work from home, we are all under that control now even if not before.

Not me - my client has no idea I now spend half my day watching old episodes of The Office US on the Comedy channel.

[LondonManc]

Client Co. have withdrawn all provisional statements on IR35 status in light of the postponement of the legislation and the current crisis.

New 3 month contract in the post with a statement that engagements will continue under the original arrangements and no determinations on status will be issued.

I'm going to call that a win for now.

Meeting booked with Client Co. hiring manager to plan for when it all comes around again, assuming I'm still here.

Splendid. 12 months more back tax for Hector to take a stab at.

[Lance]

Must be said that WFH must now have entirely disappeared as a defence against IR35?

The thing about WFH is that it *could* demonstrate a lack of control, if the contractor chooses to work where he/she wants and the location is not dictated by the client.
Arguably, now that everyone *has* to work from home, we are all under that control now even if not before.

[Lance]

Client won't have any "facts", as they would have deleted them and been compliant with GDPR Article 17.

Contractor won't have any "facts", as they would have conveniently forgotten about them.

GDPR isn't much help when it's an assessment of a business relationship.
GDPR isn't much help when the client has a valid right to retain the information (which they do).

[eek]

Pretty much that. If you do anything else, and get investigated, the client will not have your back (if they ever did in the past).

Its all down to whether you want to take the risk or not, or if you can show that you are outside by example of your working practices.

It may well be that a lot of pre-April 6 SDS's that have you inside, when you are contracting via a Ltd Co, get overturned when the client dumps you with no notice in the next couple of weeks, potentially putting you very clearly outside. Maybe.

How does that put you outside if others are fired at the same time..

[mondeoman]

If you were working outside and have received an Inside SDS, what would be the best steps now? Continue the current contract as Inside IR35, close the Ltd company and hope they never look into it? If they do, pay the backtax and say you changed to Inside IR35 when you received the SDS? Otherwise if continuing Outside you are possibly negligent, am I correct? Other options will now be limited due to Covid-19, and it is an income...

Pretty much that. If you do anything else, and get investigated, the client will not have your back (if they ever did in the past).

Its all down to whether you want to take the risk or not, or if you can show that you are outside by example of your working practices.

It may well be that a lot of pre-April 6 SDS's that have you inside, when you are contracting via a Ltd Co, get overturned when the client dumps you with no notice in the next couple of weeks, potentially putting you very clearly outside. Maybe.