Originally posted by suitcase
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Reply to: Loan Charge post on LinkedIn by Webber
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Previously on "Loan Charge post on LinkedIn by Webber"
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Originally posted by suitcase View Post
Wasn't aware of that, thanks. As said, even without that I doubt it'd be a good approach betting on them not finding the exact payslips or whatever during investigation/liquidation of the company.
So anyone knows what would be the best approach, send in the self assessment tax return declaring that I did have disguised remuneration and see how that plays out or before submitting that declare separately and directly?
Would an accountant be useful or straight up tax advisor?
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Originally posted by eek View Post
You are forgetting that agency reporting regulations mean HMRC will know exactly how much was paid by agency x to umbrella y for the work you did....
So anyone knows what would be the best approach, send in the self assessment tax return declaring that I did have disguised remuneration and see how that plays out or before submitting that declare separately and directly?
Would an accountant be useful or straight up tax advisor?
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
What year did that come in? Any idea what the level of compliance is like? Presumably, agency could be fined for failure to report or incomplete reporting?
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Originally posted by eek View Post
You are forgetting that agency reporting regulations mean HMRC will know exactly how much was paid by agency x to umbrella y for the work you did....
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Originally posted by suitcase View PostBest Employment Services. Think we all used them for a few months only, I did for 3-4 months, then went to a proper one with good rep and subsequently permanent employment a year or so after.
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Originally posted by Jumper View PostI am sure that HMRC will undoubtedly open up enquiries on those individuals that have not disclosed and will likely do that 4yrs on as they typically do. Let’s be frank here, if HMRC are aware of an umbrella that has operated a loan scheme they will be aware of ALL the employees so it will only be a matter of time for HMRC to come back and say they were given the opportunity to disclose but didn’t so will likely expect excessive penalties.
It also depends on what info they have, said company is under liquidation and the official notes state the accounts are very incomplete. It might just be a matter of time til they find or piece it all together or it might have gone down the shredder ages ago, but it's a risk for sure.
Even I don't have my contract and payslips from them anymore (stupid, I know) and would need to request a paper copy of my bank statements to figure out what I got.
Originally posted by GregRickshaw View Post
HMRC are notorious for the 'never heard back' stuff.
What dodgy umbrella did you and your colleagues use?
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Originally posted by suitcase View Post
Funny thing is some other colleagues received a similar letter last year stating they need to submit a tax assessment as they were also employed by the same dodgy umbrella, they basically said they had received no disguised remuneration, filled in the return form and that was it, never heard of them since.
What dodgy umbrella did you and your colleagues use?
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I am sure that HMRC will undoubtedly open up enquiries on those individuals that have not disclosed and will likely do that 4yrs on as they typically do. Let’s be frank here, if HMRC are aware of an umbrella that has operated a loan scheme they will be aware of ALL the employees so it will only be a matter of time for HMRC to come back and say they were given the opportunity to disclose but didn’t so will likely expect excessive penalties.
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Originally posted by Jumper View PostHi suitcase, have you managed to settle your affairs now with HMRC? Once submitted, assuming you provided details of the loans and paid the loan charge? Would be interested to hear about your experience.
Funny thing is some other colleagues received a similar letter last year stating they need to submit a tax assessment as they were also employed by the same dodgy umbrella, they basically said they had received no disguised remuneration, filled in the return form and that was it, never heard of them since.
I'd have no problem settling for missed tax and NI, I literally only received a couple of thousands as loans before I left the scheme but I reckon the penalty and interest will be more than what I owe now in tax and NI and as I said I was permanent for quite a few years so didn't have to do any self assessment or tax return.
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Originally posted by GregRickshaw View PostI think Webber is referring to the loan charge which is only applicable if you haven't declared the use of an Avoidance Scheme and HMRC have an Open enquiry on you and your scheme. He is really talking about how most people don't know about the loan charge itself, which isn't the DR.
What made me look twice was the new determinations may be sent out to unsuspecting contractors, such as suitcase possibly?
And it's now coming up to the end of the period during which HMRC can open inquiries for 2018/19 so if you used a scheme, HMRC have identified it and you didn't include the income in you 2018/19 tax return HMRC are now kicking those inquiries off. And there may be just a few of them or there may be a lot - I suspect no-one outside HMRC knows...
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Not sure what suitcase did, but I settled with HMRC so I can give you my experience. I received a settlement figure on the Open enquiries and I negotiated a long TTP (I since reduced it and is all paid off now).
I used scheme(s) in 2010/2011 Sanzar and Garraway, but I was not hit by the loan charge on the return of 2018/19 as I had provided the scheme name/number etc., in my DOTAS section on my SAR at the time of the SA etc.
I still had to pay back the DR which is fair enough I was greedy, vulnerable and naive in equal measures. However I did not get hit by the actual loan charge.
I won't mention what happened next as it's well documented.
I think Webber is referring to the loan charge which is only applicable if you haven't declared the use of an Avoidance Scheme and HMRC have an Open enquiry on you and your scheme. He is really talking about how most people don't know about the loan charge itself, which isn't the DR.
What made me look twice was the new determinations may be sent out to unsuspecting contractors, such as suitcase possibly?
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Hi suitcase, have you managed to settle your affairs now with HMRC? Once submitted, assuming you provided details of the loans and paid the loan charge? Would be interested to hear about your experience.
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Originally posted by eek View PostI'm guessing the logic goes - anyone who was subject to a loan scheme and hasn't filled in the appropriate fields on the 2019/20 tax return is in for a nasty surprise...
And a lot of people probably never filled in anything when they used a scheme and may have completely missed the loan charge requirements or wilfully ignored it.
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Originally posted by GregRickshaw View PostJust 19% of contractors are aware of the loan charge.
That means that when the discovery assessments start landing over the next six months, 4 in 5 contractors who used a scheme between 2011 and 2019 will be in for a very, very unpleasant surprise.
As far as I can see, they didn't ask people who'd actually used a loan scheme whether they were aware of the LC.
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I've no doubt there will have been a fair amount of non-compliance with the LC but I'd be surprised if this is because people were unaware of it.
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