Reply to: SP Management - HMRC claims

[DealorNoDeal]

I'd say it's highly unlikely the scheme would stand up at a tax tribunal. I've never come across one yet that has. HMRC are currently very hot on anything loan related, and apparently approval has been given at the highest level to use discretionary powers under s684 to clobber schemes:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...eme-years.html

Realistically, the best that could probably be hoped for by lodging an appeal is delaying having to settle. But delaying comes at a significant cost now that interest rates have shot up.

[HelenF]

Slightly unfair on HMRC, they will look at the appeal and start tearing it apart line by line, word by word for funsies.

the reality is that hmrc will probably ignore all appeals but someone else looking at things afresh may identify a reason or at least not annoy HMRC quite as much.

lol i get your point. Lets have our own fun at expense of HMRC. ill provide the OP a free appeal if they wish. Lets see how that pans out Sir/Madam. I know thats inappropriate but hey....we live in ridiculous times so sod them. Lets do this, we are on same team.

[eek]

As i have my own tax firm i could sound biased so id suggest you use absolutely anybody other than Carnegie. They are AML. Their appeal will almost certainly be drafted by a barrister named Setu Kamal but im not sure as i havent seen it, though he does most of their work. HMRC are never going to look at any appeal coming from the very people that create tax schemes to this day very well.

Slightly unfair on HMRC, they will look at the appeal and start tearing it apart line by line, word by word for funsies.

the reality is that hmrc will probably ignore all appeals but someone else looking at things afresh may identify a reason or at least not annoy HMRC quite as much.

[HelenF]

Hi,

Has anyone actually used Carnegie Knox to appeal to these HMRC notices? If so, would anyone be willing to share the appeal? Carnegie are offering to appeal on behalf of clients (at a cost of course) however they are being very vague on what the basis of the appeal is, only advising it is "generic".
Also, does anyone know if they have had a tax counsels' opinion on their scheme?

Thank you.

As i have my own tax firm i could sound biased so id suggest you use absolutely anybody other than Carnegie. They are AML. Their appeal will almost certainly be drafted by a barrister named Setu Kamal but im not sure as i havent seen it, though he does most of their work. HMRC are never going to look at any appeal coming from the very people that create tax schemes to this day very well.

[CrazyContract]

Hi,

Has anyone actually used Carnegie Knox to appeal to these HMRC notices? If so, would anyone be willing to share the appeal? Carnegie are offering to appeal on behalf of clients (at a cost of course) however they are being very vague on what the basis of the appeal is, only advising it is "generic".
Also, does anyone know if they have had a tax counsels' opinion on their scheme?

Thank you.

[HelenF]

Hi Everyone,

So I appealed against the Regulation 80 determination / Section 8 Notice, and asked HMRC to please explain their figures and check them as there appeared to be an error (for example they were asking for NIC's to be paid for when the company didn't even exist). I also asked them to please supply a settlement figure should taxes in fact be due.

They acknowledged the appeal but also went on to say this:

"In relation to the Class 1 NIC, HMRC must act within the Limitation Act 1980 to collect NI Contributions in England and Wales, so to protect our rights to to collect any arrears of NI Contributions and any interest on the arrears, we must take action through the County Court. In this respect, the County Court will in due course be arranging for protective claims to be issue relating to any NI contributions that may in due course be chargeable that will become time barred for collection very shortly.

When you receive this writ, you will be asked to submit your defence to the Country Court. You should outline that the decision has been appealed with HMRC and that the case is ongoing. The protective cases will be postponed until such time the case has been settled and the enquiry closed.

If any postponed amounts become payable when the appeal is settled, we will charge you interest on these amounts from the date they originally became due."

-Is this normal? Concerns me that they are applying for a writ which as far as I am aware gives them more powers to seize assets etc
-I am pretty much waiting for them to check their calculations, correct them, explain them and for a settlement figure. So the ball is all in their court now but they are saying they will charge interest for the entire period once the decision has been made. This doesn't seem fair, if they take 2 years to come back to me, that's another two years of interest.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Its nothing more than HMRC running out of time for claiming the NIC. They have started doing this more and more over the past few years. To be fair for once HMRC are fairly truthful in their letter here. If you explain to court as they say it all gets postponed. However in more normal HMRC behaviour they will of course continue to add Interest at their ridiculous rate. If HMRC did nothing at this stage the time limit passes and they would not be able to collect so its their way of keeping time limits open, albeit by wasting a courts time. Classy as ever HMRC.

[cojak]

I would suggest that you keep your cards close to your chest and not reply to anyone PMing you to ask for details on your progress.

I repeat what I posted in a different thread.

[SPMCarnegieKnoxVictim]

Hey, I am also in the same situation. How are you getting on with it all? Have you decided on a course of action to take? Id been keen to chat to someone who is in a similar boat and share experiences and how to deal with the determinations.

Hello - I am in the same situation also. Can we have a conversation? I would be happy to chat offline.

[Another1ne]

Hi,

I am in a very similar position due to the mistake of signing up with SP Management and using their accountants called Carnegie Knox who must be some of the most unethical, unprofessional people I have ever done business with. They are now completely washing their hands of the situation and telling me that the amounts being asked for by HMRC are payable, or I can pay them to put in an appeal on my behalf. It's rather unbelievable that they are asking me for money to put in an appeal to fix the issue they have created.

Caduceus, is there any update on your situation?

I personally feel like all the people affected by this company should get together and start a class action law suit against them holding them responsible for their actions.

Thanks...

Hey, I am also in the same situation. How are you getting on with it all? Have you decided on a course of action to take? Id been keen to chat to someone who is in a similar boat and share experiences and how to deal with the determinations.

[eek]

Hi Everyone,

So I appealed against the Regulation 80 determination / Section 8 Notice, and asked HMRC to please explain their figures and check them as there appeared to be an error (for example they were asking for NIC's to be paid for when the company didn't even exist). I also asked them to please supply a settlement figure should taxes in fact be due.

They acknowledged the appeal but also went on to say this:

"In relation to the Class 1 NIC, HMRC must act within the Limitation Act 1980 to collect NI Contributions in England and Wales, so to protect our rights to to collect any arrears of NI Contributions and any interest on the arrears, we must take action through the County Court. In this respect, the County Court will in due course be arranging for protective claims to be issue relating to any NI contributions that may in due course be chargeable that will become time barred for collection very shortly.

When you receive this writ, you will be asked to submit your defence to the Country Court. You should outline that the decision has been appealed with HMRC and that the case is ongoing. The protective cases will be postponed until such time the case has been settled and the enquiry closed.

If any postponed amounts become payable when the appeal is settled, we will charge you interest on these amounts from the date they originally became due."

-Is this normal? Concerns me that they are applying for a writ which as far as I am aware gives them more powers to seize assets etc
-I am pretty much waiting for them to check their calculations, correct them, explain them and for a settlement figure. So the ball is all in their court now but they are saying they will charge interest for the entire period once the decision has been made. This doesn't seem fair, if they take 2 years to come back to me, that's another two years of interest.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

That isn't normal - get yourself some proper advice asap....

[CrazyContract]

Hi Everyone,

So I appealed against the Regulation 80 determination / Section 8 Notice, and asked HMRC to please explain their figures and check them as there appeared to be an error (for example they were asking for NIC's to be paid for when the company didn't even exist). I also asked them to please supply a settlement figure should taxes in fact be due.

They acknowledged the appeal but also went on to say this:

"In relation to the Class 1 NIC, HMRC must act within the Limitation Act 1980 to collect NI Contributions in England and Wales, so to protect our rights to to collect any arrears of NI Contributions and any interest on the arrears, we must take action through the County Court. In this respect, the County Court will in due course be arranging for protective claims to be issue relating to any NI contributions that may in due course be chargeable that will become time barred for collection very shortly.

When you receive this writ, you will be asked to submit your defence to the Country Court. You should outline that the decision has been appealed with HMRC and that the case is ongoing. The protective cases will be postponed until such time the case has been settled and the enquiry closed.

If any postponed amounts become payable when the appeal is settled, we will charge you interest on these amounts from the date they originally became due."

-Is this normal? Concerns me that they are applying for a writ which as far as I am aware gives them more powers to seize assets etc
-I am pretty much waiting for them to check their calculations, correct them, explain them and for a settlement figure. So the ball is all in their court now but they are saying they will charge interest for the entire period once the decision has been made. This doesn't seem fair, if they take 2 years to come back to me, that's another two years of interest.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Jumper]

<mod snip>. Lots on her that have contributed to her plastic surgery!

[WalterWhite]

A friend of mine lives in Douglas, Isle of Man and they said Knox House was raided by the financial crime unit? I'm not sure if it's true but I hope it is!

Seems true, but not related to this

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...olice-26827493

[DealorNoDeal]

The feedback I've had over this is that HMRC just makes an assumption and a rough calculation of what they believe is unpaid and then send that out

Yes, I've seen this with lots of schemes over the years, where assessments just contain guesstimates. People are also reporting this on the Churchill Knight & Boox thread.

HMRC only really try to get it right if they issue final Closure Notices.

[Jumper]

This is HMRC we’re talking about. Of course they are going to open enquiries into every year. You now stick out like a sore thumb to them. Let’s remember that most if not all providers were made to handover their client lists to HMRC so they know who you’ve used and how long you’ve used them.

I would personally look back at all of your statements and recorded and determine the total value of your loans. I’m assuming the loan charge will be payable so you can easily add up the total tax payable by adding the total value of your loans as income to tax year 18/19.