Reply to: HMRC Letter - Compliance Check Re Disguised Remuneration Loans

[Geezer]

I moved across to PAYE in April 2020 and stupidly let my tax investigation insurance lapse, thinking i wouldn't need it. The poking around is my concern.

[ladymuck]

Sorry for reopening this thread. Like a few on these forums I received a letter from HMRC back in December 2020 regarding ‘disguised remuneration’ and if I was aware if I had been involved in such schemes. I have always been a LTD company with a salary and dividends etc so I sent a short reply stating I had never been a part of said schemes. Again, like a few on these forums my accountants are part of the Knox group. I heard nothing again until 2nd Sept 2021, when I got a response thanking me for my reply and advising me that HMRC sent the initial letter because they received information that suggested I may have received some income through a scheme (I never have). They state they need to check my 2018/19 return and whether the information they received was accurate (I assume this is via association thru my accountant with the Knox group). Has any one, or know of anyone, who has had similar and got a resolution? Should I wait a few weeks then contact HMRC?

Do you have tax investigation insurance? Call them up. If what you're saying is correct then this should be closed down quickly but you don't want HMRC to do one of their 'while we're here' things and start poking around other areas.

[Geezer]

Sorry for reopening this thread. Like a few on these forums I received a letter from HMRC back in December 2020 regarding ‘disguised remuneration’ and if I was aware if I had been involved in such schemes. I have always been a LTD company with a salary and dividends etc so I sent a short reply stating I had never been a part of said schemes. Again, like a few on these forums my accountants are part of the Knox group. I heard nothing again until 2nd Sept 2021, when I got a response thanking me for my reply and advising me that HMRC sent the initial letter because they received information that suggested I may have received some income through a scheme (I never have). They state they need to check my 2018/19 return and whether the information they received was accurate (I assume this is via association thru my accountant with the Knox group). Has any one, or know of anyone, who has had similar and got a resolution? Should I wait a few weeks then contact HMRC?

[Iter]

Thanks for the responses & advice :

What are we Checking and Why
We are checking your return to see whether it should have included information about disguised remuneration loans. Our records indicate that it should have.

If we find we need to check anything else, we’ll write to let you know.

All the information requested is about loans, response email address is [email protected]

I have contacted my tax investigation insurance provider, according to them there have been number of these letters which have been sent to individuals who have not been members of any arrangements. I will write back to HMRC once I have received advice on wording.

They seem to be templated letters, I received 2, both in the same envelope and with the same date on. However first one was in regards to the original return I submitted back in Jan and then the other letter corresponds to the ‘amended’ return I filed later in the year which included some updates before the Sep deadline.
Interesting as the 2nd letter seems to acknowledge the updates I have disclosed and does ‘not require any further information until told.....’. But the first letter is requesting all the usual information around any loans ‘you may have had’ etc. Quite confusing actually if I really need to provide all of the answers again. It actually does also state in first letter that you should only provide information if the loan charge/ outstanding loan exists. Probably safe to still respond and ack receipt of both letters. The info provided in 2nd return to be reiterated and expect nothing further for now unless told otherwise....?

[eazy]

Loan Charge

Thanks for the responses & advice :

What are we Checking and Why
We are checking your return to see whether it should have included information about disguised remuneration loans. Our records indicate that it should have.

If we find we need to check anything else, we’ll write to let you know.

All the information requested is about loans, response email address is [email protected]

I have contacted my tax investigation insurance provider, according to them there have been number of these letters which have been sent to individuals who have not been members of any arrangements. I will write back to HMRC once I have received advice on wording.

[webberg]

Go and get some advice because a lot of comments above are guesses or misleading or both.

HMRC will open an enquiry into a YEAR (never limited to just one aspect within that year) based either on information held or because your record has been pulled up in an algorithm HMRC has devised to search their database for particular "risks".

Sometimes, this is based on HMRC's evidence that certain agents may be connected with particular risks (i.e. are facilitating or promoting "schemes"), sometimes more specific information based on personal circumstances.

These days a "random" enquiry is not very likely. HMRC is way too busy, especially now, to tie up staff in enquiries that will not produce a return.

I would therefore say that HMRC has spotted smoke and is looking for fire.

I suggest that you ask HMRC what the enquiry is about and what prompted it.

If it is indeed the fact that you have been targeted because of your agent, you need to call the agent and ask them why.

Depending on the answers you need to consider whether to stay with that agent or not.

For the avoidance of doubt. I am not suggesting that this agent - whomever it is - has been facilitating or promoting tax avoidance in any form. The enquiry may have been sparked by HMRC asking all agents known to have clients in a particular industry or sector.

[DealorNoDeal]

When responding to HMRC, don't get shirty with them.

Don't antagonise them.

That s9a for DR loans could easily turn into an s9a for IR35.

Hopefully, once they're satisfied that you never received any loans, they will close the s9a.

[eek]

If this was just a simple Ltd company and dividends set up, how can HMRC issue an enquiry other than a big fishing exercise to see if anyone bites. Makes no sense at all. There must be more to this, there cannot be smoke without fire.

HMRC ask for a list of clients using that accountancy firm (probably by looking at agents approved to handle reports) and write to all of them as they won't know from the details they have whether they are dodgy or not.

[fullyautomatix]

If this was just a simple Ltd company and dividends set up, how can HMRC issue an enquiry other than a big fishing exercise to see if anyone bites. Makes no sense at all. There must be more to this, there cannot be smoke without fire.

[eek]

Double Limited Scheme perhaps?

Or something like that - I suspect HMRC want the transaction details of companies related to that accountant as a lot of them were probably just collecting points / fronts before the money was forwarded into the scheme.

[regron]

Double Limited Scheme perhaps?

[piebaps]

Yes - My accountants are owned by Knox group - T

That sets off my alarm bells. Tread carefully and good luck.

[ladymuck]

Agreed, but don't say anything until you've spoken to IPSE and got the case running. It's far to easy to dig your own hole unless you follow professional advice.

^^ absolutely this

Tell it all to whoever is running the IPSE insurance and they will sort it

[malvolio]

I'd tell HMRC exactly that - that you went to the presentation, heard the word scheme and ran a mile. Then casually ask why they take so long to pursue them.

Agreed, but don't say anything until you've spoken to IPSE and got the case running. It's far to easy to dig your own hole unless you follow professional advice.

[LondonManc]

Yes - My accountants are owned by Knox group - They tried to persuade us to use these loan schemes, did go to their presentation but did not sign up and carried on working through the Ltd company.

I'd tell HMRC exactly that - that you went to the presentation, heard the word scheme and ran a mile. Then casually ask why they take so long to pursue them.