Reply to: Flexible working rights for all - could they backfire?

[tomtomagain]

That's exactly how we did evolve.

Yes you're right! But evolution hasn't stopped. So now it's time to evolve into a flexible-working-species that isn't restricted by a 9 to 5, 40 hours-a-week, got-to-be-at-your-desk-to-count mindset!

[VectraMan]

Human-beans did not evolve to spend the majority of their working lives staring at a computer screen or in a tedious meeting with no purpose.

That's exactly how we did evolve.

If someone is going to outsource your job, they are going to do it regardless of whether you are in the office or not.

Indeed. It's like saying "They can't fire me! I'm the only one that can unjam the photocopier". It may be true, but ultimately it's bad management that's keeping you there. I imagine there's a lot of people that wouldn't want to WFH just because it'll make it obvious how little they actually do.

[d000hg]

We are stuck in a 40-hour per week, 9-6 mindset. It should change. Human-beans did not evolve to spend the majority of their working lives staring at a computer screen or in a tedious meeting with no purpose.

I somehow doubt we evolved to have a working week in the first place. Evolutionary speaking, we haven't caught up to fire yet!

[tomtomagain]

Not if you are in sales it isn't. When your working hours are dictated by your customer then 9-5 is not a throwback at all.

If a requirement of a role is to be present for certain hours, for example a security guard covering the small hours in the morning, or sales-person that must meet with clients at a certain time, then the legislation must allow for this.

But if the role can be done flexibly then why the prevent it being done flexibly?

We are stuck in a 40-hour per week, 9-6 mindset. It should change. Human-beans did not evolve to spend the majority of their working lives staring at a computer screen or in a tedious meeting with no purpose.

If flexible working is implemented pragmatically then everyone should benefit in the long-run. Whether you are a parent wanting to take your kids to school in the morning, or a singleton wanting to have a lie in on a Monday or someone who wants to take some regular time off to attend a college course or simply to potter around the garden!

What would need to improve and change would be management styles and practices.

if a job can be done outside of working hours and away from the office then it can be outsourced.

If someone is going to outsource your job, they are going to do it regardless of whether you are in the office or not.

[DodgyAgent]

If you're in a sales job, the job doesn't end at 5 - as you know all too well...

So what difference does it make if you finish at 17:00, 17:30 or 16:30? It doesn't matter. At all.

If a call comes through on the mobile after your allotted end time, you take it. If an important email comes through, you reply.

This will happen whether you are still 'working your hours' or at home, watching the telly or spending valuable time with the kids

When I said "9-5" I meant it it metaphorically to represent the traditional working time as specified by the employer. However you have alluded to a central point in this argument which is whether you work according to what suits the worker or what suits the employer. i know that my sales people need a disciplined working environment that involves interraction with other members of the sales and support team. Yes I can have sales people who will produce results whether they are part of this environment or not, but these people I do not need to worry about. The rest need to work on my terms or not at all.

[Hireonomy]

Not if you are in sales it isn't. When your working hours are dictated by your customer then 9-5 is not a throwback at all. If the hours you work are irrelevant to the job then the right to work on the terms of the worker is a matter of trust that has to be earned. I have known a lot of contractors that "work from home" and they have done a perfectly reasonable job but I have always thought that is a job can be done on this basis then why employ an expensive person in the UK instead of shipping it abroad.
the moral is that if a job can be done outside of working hours and away from the office then it can be outsourced.

If you're in a sales job, the job doesn't end at 5 - as you know all too well...

So what difference does it make if you finish at 17:00, 17:30 or 16:30? It doesn't matter. At all.

If a call comes through on the mobile after your allotted end time, you take it. If an important email comes through, you reply.

This will happen whether you are still 'working your hours' or at home, watching the telly or spending valuable time with the kids

[DodgyAgent]

Employees have the right to request flexible working. Employers are not mandated to give it.

Having benefited from flexible working in the past I am a great supporter of the idea.

The whole 9 - 5 working week is a throw back to working on a factory production line. Since most of us don't do that any more it's fairly irrelevant.

Not if you are in sales it isn't. When your working hours are dictated by your customer then 9-5 is not a throwback at all. If the hours you work are irrelevant to the job then the right to work on the terms of the worker is a matter of trust that has to be earned. I have known a lot of contractors that "work from home" and they have done a perfectly reasonable job but I have always thought that is a job can be done on this basis then why employ an expensive person in the UK instead of shipping it abroad.
the moral is that if a job can be done outside of working hours and away from the office then it can be outsourced.

[BrilloPad]

When WFH, never has cleaning the oven looked more attractive.

[tomtomagain]

Employees have the right to request flexible working. Employers are not mandated to give it.

Having benefited from flexible working in the past I am a great supporter of the idea.

The whole 9 - 5 working week is a throw back to working on a factory production line. Since most of us don't do that any more it's fairly irrelevant.

[The Spartan]

Flexible working has been around in the Civil Service for donkey's years and look how that has turned out

[northernladuk]

It is a fair point but if you recruit correctly and have the correct controls and measures in place it does not matter where the employee is physically sat you can monitor their out put and ensure it is achieveing the correct standard (note we do not monitor the amount of work done we monitor whether they achieve objectives)

Yep totally but remember this is open to all. Dedicated professionals down to the lazy and feckless that think sick days are a right to be taken and not wasted. Some people just want to do the absolute minimum so will be a nightmare to monitor them.

[original PM]

All this gumpf about us being global and connected meaning we can work from home is all very good but is forgetting one major factor. The people. It's hard enough managing lazy bastards in the office let alone letting them WFH. IMO this needs to be earned not given freely. I would guess there are many people that are not set up to work properly at home and definitely don't have the mind set so it's not going to work.

I am waiting for people to say they want to go part time and then offer Mon, Weds and Friday as an option. Poor bloody company is going to be royally ****ed. Can't say no but that arrangement is nigh on useless to them.

It is a fair point but if you recruit correctly and have the correct controls and measures in place it does not matter where the employee is physically sat you can monitor their out put and ensure it is achieveing the correct standard (note we do not monitor the amount of work done we monitor whether they achieve objectives)


Secondly you would not be able to shift from full time to part time - if the job is full time then so be it if it is part time then so be it - this legislation will not allow people to reduce the number of hours they work just be more flexible on when and where they do the work.


So yes if you are a Barrista at Costa you cannot work from home as you need to be stood behind the counter serving coffee.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Bad news. Whether it has any impact or not, it's still a bad sign of things to come.

[NotAllThere]

Of course it could backfire. Anything could. The question really is whether it's enough of a good idea that it's worth the risk.

[northernladuk]

All this gumpf about us being global and connected meaning we can work from home is all very good but is forgetting one major factor. The people. It's hard enough managing lazy bastards in the office let alone letting them WFH. IMO this needs to be earned not given freely. I would guess there are many people that are not set up to work properly at home and definitely don't have the mind set so it's not going to work.

I am waiting for people to say they want to go part time and then offer Mon, Weds and Friday as an option. Poor bloody company is going to be royally ****ed. Can't say no but that arrangement is nigh on useless to them.