Reply to: Does she have a point?

[xoggoth]

I am the one who is Ignorant? Your unwillingness to recognise any argument you disagree with is epic.

Yes you are. My ignorance is not proved by stating your ignorance as that is clearly apparent. As for argument, what arguments have you provided In this thread? You clearly do not understand the difference between argument and posting baseless rants.

Prove me wrong if you can. I have asked you twice to provide links to Farage "anchoring us in public consciousness as total losers" or indulging in "boundless polonophobia". It is just possible there is some racist speech I have missed, but so far I have seen nothing from you.

[SueEllen]

Overblown? Why will you not watch Cameron branding us as child benefit abusers. Or watch the Great Immigration Row in which Polish Ambassador (SIC!) is put on stand alongside ethnic comedians to be accosted by the likes of Kate Hopkins. I will not even mention Farage whose polonophobia knows no bounds.

On the personal note, If you will be put middle contract under the management of 21 year old Indian 'consultant' and persistently labelled as a person who 'run queries for him' you will see that something is waaay out.

Get over yourself you are nothing special - immigrants for years have to put up with this sh*t in the UK and worse in the UK.

Luckily like the Polish who ended up here after the 2nd World War your children will have fully integrated mainly due to your religion and skin colour.

Oh and some Indians from India have a problem with a lot of people from the West. If you have support from other people in the client organisation you can get them booted out for incompetence otherwise find yourself a new contract and leave.

[xoggoth]

Re "taking our jobs". Migrants create their own demand and their own economy, so the impact is certainly not as high some claim. However, that is hardly of any benefit to existing citizens, it does not increase the GDP per capita and adds to numerous pressures on schools, housing etc.

In so far as it does impact those at the bottom of our society, it is not the white British this mainly affects but descendants of previous migrant waves:

Rising unemployment for UK's ethnic minorities: who's affected? | News | theguardian.com

Curious how some laud mass immigration as such a positive thing while it is happening yet, given a few decades, they are telling us how the failures of those same ethnic groups are all due to exclusion. Maybe it is in part but then, regardless of reasons, if something does not work logic suggests we should stop doing it.

PS:

The overall conclusion from existing evidence is that immigration has
very small impacts on GDP per capita, whether these impacts are
positive or negative. This conclusion is in line with findings of studies
of the economic impacts of immigration in other countries including
the US

http://www.publications.parliament.u...onaf/82/82.pdf

[mos]

Never been concerned by Poles much, I think their economy will improve rapidly and in in 2 or 3 decades the arrangements will be much more reciprocal. However, I must admit mos's ignorant and fact-free whines have somewhat diminished my view of Poles.

I am the one who is Ignorant? Your unwillingness to recognise any argument you disagree with is epic.
But I also must admit, that for UKiP follower you are moderate in the choice of invectives.

[mudskipper]

As Ticktock said (Why does the reputation thing say I must spread around whoever I click).

Never been concerned by Poles much, I think their economy will improve rapidly and in in 2 or 3 decades the arrangements will be much more reciprocal. However, I must admit mos's ignorant and fact-free whines have somewhat diminished my view of Poles.

I don't think there is a general dislike of Poles.

At the bottom end of the job market, there is understandable resentment that there are a large number of Polish workers "taking our jobs", but the general impression seems to be that the Poles do it better and cheaper than the Brit equivalent. And, from my limited experience, it is Poles rather than Eastern Europeans - I worked for a company which had a large warehouse operation, and the signs in the warehouse were Polish and English.

[xoggoth]

As Ticktock said (Why does the reputation thing say I must spread around whoever I click).

Never been concerned by Poles much, I think their economy will improve rapidly and in in 2 or 3 decades the arrangements will be much more reciprocal. However, I must admit mos's ignorant and fact-free whines have somewhat diminished my view of Poles.

PS AS before (and I got no answer obviously) please provide a link to some examples of Farage's supposed polonophobia.

[mos]

You and Scooterscot should hook up. The overblown feeling of victimisation is very similar.

Overblown? Why will you not watch Cameron branding us as child benefit abusers. Or watch the Great Immigration Row in which Polish Ambassador (SIC!) is put on stand alongside ethnic comedians to be accosted by the likes of Kate Hopkins. I will not even mention Farage whose polonophobia knows no bounds.

On the personal note, If you will be put middle contract under the management of 21 year old Indian 'consultant' and persistently labelled as a person who 'run queries for him' you will see that something is waaay out.

[Ticktock]

You and Scooterscot should hook up. The overblown feeling of victimisation is very similar.

[mos]

There was a poll recently about polish immigration. 90% of respondents said "To jest świetne!"

polish immigration? is nail polish immigrating? This is very old rehashed joke which you 'adjusted' to reflect new popular hate target. You use it on me because hating POLISH people is now respectable in England.

[NotAllThere]

There was a poll recently about polish immigration. 90% of respondents said "To jest świetne!"

[mos]

My comments were more to show that you are being very Polish as you would see that it not that easy to pretend to be from another country especially one with another religion.

I cannot imagine what you mean, but it seem to show lofty contempt for people from my country.

Yes - I am very Polish. And I am pretty sure that I am at least as well travelled as you are.

[Zero Liability]

I wonder if Mos is referring to the fact that both in Greece and Cyprus there are quite a few foreign workers from Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc., some of which are naturalised citizens, and thus some who aren't attempt to pass off such a background. I don't think he's implying they look the same as southern Europeans, as that would strain credulity, to say the least. The latter are quite pasty by comparison, besides other physical differences.

[SueEllen]

When did I say that Greeks and Portuguese look all the same? You seem to be projecting deep prejudice on me.

You will probably twist my words to make me look like a racist monster (because thats how we Poles are),

My comments were more to show that you are being very Polish as you would see that it not that easy to pretend to be from another country especially one with another religion.

but it is my personal experience that up to 2008 some Pakistanis, Lebanese and Jordanians represented themselves as Greeks. Since 2008 their identity of choice is Portuguese and sometimes Italians. To be fair, because the period of reference is December2012-September 2013, Romanians would also have strong motive to fake their identity. I am not saying that this actually happened in every single case.

Cities and large towns in the UK have more ethnic minorities, and have one or more long established Greek, Pakistani and Italian communities. In the case of the European communities a lot of the people don't look stereotypically Southern European.

This means if you were trying to pass yourself of as Greek when you were Pakistani you are very likely to end up with a government official or NHS worker who had Pakistani or Greek heritage who would prove you weren't. (I've actually heard of people doing this but they claimed to be from other countries. )

Also how you speak English even if badly helps give away where you are from.

I am merely trying to work out the reasons behind the fact that the number of 'bogus students' was so perfectly offset by the increase in the immigration from Southern Europe.

European migration isn't measured properly in the UK so you can discount the figures.

The trend could be triggered and supported by an increase in unemployment in these countries in the period leading to January 2013. On the other hand these countries have been suffering high unemployment rates for considerable number of years and yet the immigration to UK stood still at 50% of the last reported number. Is it possible that the level of unemployment in these countries reached the tipping point? Is it possible that Romanians and growing illegal migration from outside of the EU crowded out intra Mediterranean migration?

Romanians like Bulgarians were allowed to get visas to work as agricultural or care workers for years before they could become self-employed - all before this year.

The only reason I was given for tradesmen from Central and Eastern Europe lying about being Polish was because Polish tradesmen have a reputation for having a good work ethic and saying that would get them more work then admitting they were Serbian or Ukrainian.

[vetran]

Chips and gravy?

she told me that was extra!

[xoggoth]

In addition, Farage is going around disparaging us and anchoring us in public consciousness as total losers

Please provide a link to Farage doing any such thing. I don't think Farage or indeed many of us have any problem with reasonable numbers of decent migrants like yourself. It is only the unsuitable individuals, very large numbers who create pressures on our housing and schools, or those who remain separate from our society and create unnecessary divisions, that we object to. Farage has simply called for similar controls to those in Australia or Canada and he is quite right that we will never get that within the EU as it stands.

I agree with you that migration from outside the EU is the greater problem but the two are not unconnected. It is far more difficult to control the UK's borders when those controls are effectively outside our control.