When is enough?

[vetran]

Agreed, I am so grateful that I have never been in this situation. I believe (although I think EO knows a fair amount more than me about WW2) that the rules in Germany, at least towards the end of the war, changed such that a soldier and his family would be shot if he deserted or refused to follow orders. Absolutely horrific situation to be in

I'm assuming such conditions are seen as mitigating circumstances. The behaviour under duress should however be humane within the orders. Guards beating / abusing / killing inmates for fun is what should be punished.

and no until the last one is dead we shouldn't stop bringing them to justice. As for those in other conflicts we shouldn't make them MPs.

[MyUserName]

I am not denying this but what a horrible situation. You are in the army so conditioned to follow orders whatever with the threat of being shot for not doing as you are told. Facing a choice between being shot or hunted down and jailed for the rest of your life can't be a nice place to be. Doesn't exonerate or excuse anything don't get me wrong, just commenting on the choices available.

Agreed, I am so grateful that I have never been in this situation. I believe (although I think EO knows a fair amount more than me about WW2) that the rules in Germany, at least towards the end of the war, changed such that a soldier and his family would be shot if he deserted or refused to follow orders. Absolutely horrific situation to be in

In contrast my brother (in the British army) had soldiers refusing to follow his orders once in Iraq when their base was hit. Oddly he said he was not actually angry, he just felt sorry for them because they were terrified and he was more concerned in stopping the rest of the boys knowing what had happened (due to retaliation) than actually punishing them.

[d000hg]

Tracking down people in their late 80s or older does seem rather, well I'm not sure pointless is the word, but awkward in I would assume most cases. A spry, compos mentis person perhaps but a doddery old man who can't remember 60 years ago and/or is living in a home already...

Tricky one really.

[northernladuk]

There have to be rules and the rules need to be followed. If you are guilty of a crime and have not been caught then you are not in the clear no matter how long it has been.

I was only following orders has been ruled as not an acceptable defence so that is not relevant to the case. Legally they are considered to have had a choice and chose to do these horrific things to other humans.

I am not denying this but what a horrible situation. You are in the army so conditioned to follow orders whatever with the threat of being shot for not doing as you are told. Facing a choice between being shot or hunted down and jailed for the rest of your life can't be a nice place to be. Doesn't exonerate or excuse anything don't get me wrong, just commenting on the choices available.

[MyUserName]

There have to be rules and the rules need to be followed. If you are guilty of a crime and have not been caught then you are not in the clear no matter how long it has been.

I was only following orders has been ruled as not an acceptable defence so that is not relevant to the case. Legally they are considered to have had a choice and chose to do these horrific things to other humans.

[northernladuk]

I have been to Auschwitz and it is a very moving place but must admit I am on the fence about the news story but I can't see how the result below helps anything. 5 years will mean about 2 or even less if he is in ill health and more than likely to die before it comes to a close. I can't help think it's not really proving or achieving anything.

He had been sentenced to five years in jail for being an accessory to the murder of 28,060 people but died in a home for the elderly while the case was pending appeal.

[Mich the Tester]

Many people in the former East Germany committed what would be considered crimes against humanity, yet that had no or almost no punishment.

Germany needs some consistency, or are they only interested in punishing crimes their important international partners are interested in?

I agree.

[Troll]

Bearing in mind they almost certainly had no choice in what they were doing?

We all have choices

77000 German citizens were killed for resisting Nazism - what you mean is it is usually safer with an eye to self preservation to follow the herd
As Burke said..

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[tractor]

.

" This meant that courts did not have to prove active participation in killing to find a suspect guilty of murder"

That is that part that would concern me.

[reddog]

Many people in the former East Germany committed what would be considered crimes against humanity, yet that had no or almost no punishment.

Germany needs some consistency, or are they only interested in punishing crimes their important international partners are interested in?

[Mich the Tester]

BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

Is this still a worthwhile use of resources? Are these men too old to be investigated? Bearing in mind they almost certainly had no choice in what they were doing?

It's never enough. Although most of the perpetrators probably won't be caught up with and won't go to jail before they're dead, their punishment is that they can never sleep quietly at night for fear of that knock on the door; maybe they'll feel just one tiny little bit of the fear that their victims went through. Of course, being arrested by the German police of 2014 and then being presented to a modern German judge can not possibly be as frightening as being pulled out of bed in 1939 in Germany. It's an important principle; if you cooperate in genocide, you won't be allowed to get away with it and 'I was following orders' is NOT an excuse.

However, sometimes I wish they'd take a tougher approach to those who were part of the Stasi too.

[MicrosoftBob]

I think they should go to jail as a warning to others considering similar actions, like the death camps in North Korea hopefully for them their time will come as well

[BrilloPad]

BBC News - Germany arrests three suspected Auschwitz guards

Three men aged 88, 92 and 94 have been detained by German authorities on suspicion of being guards at the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

Is this still a worthwhile use of resources? Are these men too old to be investigated? Bearing in mind they almost certainly had no choice in what they were doing?