Reply to: Rip Off Margins / Rates

[AtW]

It's bad enough that agencies may be run by bean-counters, but my pet peeve is that if you look for recruiter roles, sales ability is regarded far more highly than sector or technical knowledge.

That's true even in communist countries

[suityou01]

It's bad enough that agencies may be run by bean-counters, but my pet peeve is that if you look for recruiter roles, sales ability is regarded far more highly than sector or technical knowledge.

This makes sense to me though.

[evilagent]

.....
But since agencies are driven by accountants, not recruiters, and clients largely believe the marketing bollocks spouted by the agencies, it's not going to happen, is it?

It's bad enough that agencies may be run by bean-counters, but my pet peeve is that if you look for recruiter roles, sales ability is regarded far more highly than sector or technical knowledge.

[bobspud]

There are no rip off rates as long as the contractor gets what they have asked for. However last year an agency decided that they wanted to steal an extra £50 a day from our client despite being on £100 a day already. at the time it needed extra approvals and made me look like a bigger twat than I already am But it took precisely three weeks before the client figured out what had happened. (I accidentally started sending my invoice and approvals sheets round robin including the client and the greasy little tulip that pulled the stunt.) The upshot was I kept six months of work and he vanished from the agency rather fast. In the end come renwal I said thanks but I am off and filled the role for the client through a different agency and an old mate that needed a hand.

All in all there are a few things a good agent might want to take on board:

1) If you want me to take 425 and I just told you my rate is £600, asking what the lowest I will do the work for is stupid. Why don't you ask how many more opportunities I can open up for you instead. My current client (a direct bodyshop) went £150 over budget on me because they needed a bruiser that had a track record with hard clients and stressful projects (my role had 3 other guys in it in the previous 9 months) First thing I did was give them another 3 names of good contractors that would be good for their business. So instead of earning margin on just me I gave them a mini team. and told them which order they could bring the guys onto site.

2) if agency X lucks out and gets someone in on 800 a day while screwing them for 350. It does not take the client long to figure out the Agency is being less than fair.

3) Rates are on the way up in my game, There will be a long line of payback on the cards for some pretty short sighted stupidity.

Anyone can throw money around but skills are finite and no skills willing to work for you == NO MORE MONEY... equating that you can just get some green horn instead won't work.

[suityou01]

I do not remember making any mistakes insofar my sofa is concerned.

We do

[AtW]

And this works for you since the public mauling about your sofa?

I do not remember making any mistakes insofar my sofa is concerned.

[suityou01]

I think it's good time you learn something new - don't admit to your mistakes in public, and if you do then use mumsnet instead of CUK ...

And this works for you since the public mauling about your sofa?

[AtW]

Again, I learned a lot.

I think it's good time you learn something new - don't admit to your mistakes in public, and if you do then use mumsnet instead of CUK ...

[malvolio]

If the clientco if offering £500 a day, and the agency normally takes £100 a day, thats £400 for the contractor.

If the agency manages to convince another contractor to accept £350, they take £150 a day.
That may be regarded as a rip-off margin.

If a contractor if making £350 a day, thats his agreed rate.
If he is offered £500 a day, for essentially the same job, is he ripping off the new client, since he is doing the same work for £150 more than last client.

Is there such a thing as rip-off rates?
Would you accept the higher rate, or as benevolent and ethical contractors, offer to work for your "normal", lower, rate?

This is a problem of the agencies' own devising, I'm afraid. They negotiate the price with the client, then work out how much they will offer the worker allowing for at least their standard margin (and more if possible, naturally). Clearly the worker is going to bid high in the hope of getting a realistic rate for a job they know nothing about at the point you're asking them to quote for it.

I have a set of parameters that allow me to quote a sensible rate for any role I'm likely to want to take. However, I can only really apply that when I know who the client is, where they are, what risk is in my side of the contract and a stack of other things, most of which I don't know at the point we're debating the price.

Perhaps if the agencies could work out how to identify the best two or three candidates and then have the bidding war, everyone would be better off and "Market Rate" would mean something more than "I can't be arsed to work out a rate but I know what I'm going to offer". But since agencies are driven by accountants, not recruiters, and clients largely believe the marketing bollocks spouted by the agencies, it's not going to happen, is it?

[eek]

Again, I learned a lot. Even if I'd been balls out confident I would never have even dreamed an agent would or could make 100% markup.

Have you never worked for a consultancy and seen their markup rates.....

[suityou01]

Never show weakness in negotiating.

Again, I learned a lot. Even if I'd been balls out confident I would never have even dreamed an agent would or could make 100% markup.

[eek]

When I was finishing my contract in Germany I learned the agency was charging double my rate. Considering they screwed me down on 4€ per hour at the start with the threat it might be a deal breaker, and I was so desperate for work, also how they made me wait 60 days for my first invoice to be paid I think this was evil.

Never show weakness in negotiating.

[suityou01]

Next time check agency's motto in advance and don't take on those that have it as "Be Evil".

But all agents have that etched into their hooves though

[AtW]

I think this was evil.

Next time check agency's motto in advance and don't take on those that have it as "Be Evil".

[suityou01]

When I was finishing my contract in Germany I learned the agency was charging double my rate. Considering they screwed me down on 4€ per hour at the start with the threat it might be a deal breaker, and I was so desperate for work, also how they made me wait 60 days for my first invoice to be paid I think this was evil.

I was paying all my flights and accomodation and hanging on by a thread while they were making €550 per day from me and laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes I was naive, yes I learned a lot, yes I am bitter.

Their slogan was "Putting an IT worker in their place every 48 seconds".

I hope they all die in a fire.