Reply to: Am I been taking for a ride

[vetran]

Very annoying but has happened to me a couple of times, all willing & excited until it comes to sign on the line, at least you didn't go to Liverpool at your own expense to hear it. Or find out the job had no budget.

Good job you kept your other irons in the fire!

[BrilloPad]

The call on Monday was with the end client (IB). I explained to them carefully what I could and couldn't do. (I don't want there to be any misunderstanding for my first role).

The end client rejected me as I they wanted someone with IB experience. I explained to the TCS chap that I thought it was bad form I had been verbally offered a role when clearly I had not completed the interview process,he apologised.

My gut feeling all along was that this 'offer' was not legitimate. I just wanted the job and the day rate so kidded myself into believing it.

No hard feelings on my part, you live and learn.

Sorry to hear that. Very annoying.

The IB experience thing is annoying. IB roles are way easier than roles outside IB intellectually. Its just that some can't put up with commuting/crowds/being shouted at.

Onwards and upwards!

[Angrybunny]

The call on Monday was with the end client (IB). I explained to them carefully what I could and couldn't do. (I don't want there to be any misunderstanding for my first role).

The end client rejected me as I they wanted someone with IB experience. I explained to the TCS chap that I thought it was bad form I had been verbally offered a role when clearly I had not completed the interview process,he apologised.

My gut feeling all along was that this 'offer' was not legitimate. I just wanted the job and the day rate so kidded myself into believing it.

No hard feelings on my part, you live and learn.

[bobspud]

I have worked with several body shoppers over the years, there is a real art form to being successful with them. First off they do expect mobility so its no biggie that they asked you to run up to Liverpool for a chat. It can sometimes be a good sign of impending pots of money in the offing for hours spent listening to your car stereo. If this is your first out of permie role then you really should get some experience elsewhere first.

In essence what B.S shops like are permies. Permies can be made to work ridiculous hours and bullied. Next best thing for them are contractors that still think like a permie they cost more but the B.S can still use intimidation and make them work long hours. The top of the stack is the really clever guys that can shred their permies, wont take any crap BUT can make up for the rest of the woeful team of idiots that the shop has put in at a massive margin.

If you are one of those then you can command serious revenue and do what the hell you want as long as you are on their message and they see that you do something that none of their guys can...

[TheFaQQer]

I have seen and have used (inadvertently) vendors for free consultancy, until they send you a signed contract they aren't agreeing to pay you anything. That is Key, luckily you have avoided expending any money so far. Look for other contracts as well, they may change their mind.

Been there, been used to provide free consultancy and then "the role went to someone internally". What, they just suddenly found an experienced developer in this particular niche who'd been hiding behind the sofa??

Now this may be a personal experience but I don't have a lot of time for TCS, many of the guys there are really nice but they were happy to work people for expertise first time I met them and many of their guys though intelligent had little experience.

Seen this happen as well.

[AtW]

This is working for an investment bank in London.

[vetran]

I have seen and have used (inadvertently) vendors for free consultancy, until they send you a signed contract they aren't agreeing to pay you anything. That is Key, luckily you have avoided expending any money so far. Look for other contracts as well, they may change their mind.

Now this may be a personal experience but I don't have a lot of time for TCS, many of the guys there are really nice but they were happy to work people for expertise first time I met them and many of their guys though intelligent had little experience.

On Monday if they start asking you how to solve explicit technical problems be a little cagey, by all means name all the seven dwarves but don't tell them to kiss Snow white. Wait until you have a contract in your hand so you can be sure about the problem and you can show them, you wouldn't waste their time with duff gen.

[Angrybunny]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Dominic.

I'll keep my optimistic hat on.

[Dominic Connor]

Body shops are like this

Like Blasterbates I don't see this as some sort of fraud, just the sort of issue you have been dealing with body shops.

What you have in effect is two layers of agent, so both need to know that the client is going to take you on.
More moving parts = more delay + more things to go wrong.

I defer to others on whether Silverlink is good or bad.

In effect the other conference call is an interview, from my experience both as a pimp and as a contractor this will probably be with the sales/account manager for that bank and the project manager.

The idea of body shops is that they "add value" by managing you and since their margins are a *lot* higher than the agency will want to make sure you are unlikely to piss in their pool.

The "value add" of BS's is highly variable, but typically it means there is something like a team and they will watch out for you a little bit, so once you've got through the crud of actually getting the contract on average it will be a better gig for a first timer. There will be more bureaucracy, when I was in a body shop deal once I had three sets of time sheets to do, one for the agency, one for the body shop and one for the client, each of which was on a different basis, ie hours for the agency, days for the BS, and half hours for the client each associated with a project code.

There will probably be a bit more politics.

As a straight contractor you mostly turn up, fight the system and go home.

In a BS, they will be trying to get in on new projects, trying to make the screwups look like someone else's fault and the permies will often see you as an outsider more than if you were hired straight.

Contracts are Boolean, you have on or you do not. If you have a contract then you are obliged to make the best of it, if they have not sent you one then neither party is under any obligation at all, so you should keep your ears open to offers.

[BlasterBates]

I mean it's not like it's a con job, no-one is asking you to transfer some money. Agents don't run you around for a "joke", it also takes up their time. Obviously there seems to be quite a few parties involved and especially in banks the approval and so on can take a while.

[kingcook]

It is very annoying. Sometimes you are the statue and and sometimes the pigeon. Good luck.

[BrilloPad]

On Friday they asked me to go to Liverpool (the job is in London) to see someone from TCS. I said 'well I had actually seen the contract I might but as I don't work for the company as yet I don't want to go all that way'

That's when they arranged the phone call on Monday.

I'll keep looking!

It is very annoying. Sometimes you are the statue and and sometimes the pigeon. Good luck.

[Angrybunny]

You are best to keep looking round.

Never except a contract verbally. Always say - I agree dependent on getting a written offer.

On Friday they asked me to go to Liverpool (the job is in London) to see someone from TCS. I said 'well I had actually seen the contract I might but as I don't work for the company as yet I don't want to go all that way'

That's when they arranged the phone call on Monday.

I'll keep looking!

[BrilloPad]

You are best to keep looking round.

Never except a contract verbally. Always say - I agree dependent on getting a written offer.

[stek]

Haha, Silverlink!! Are you mad???