Reply to: Send em all home?

[vetran]

Sorry was out enjoying the sunshine.

Not sure about China yet but in India many large firms are creating local offices and support as they see both the cost savings and the avenue into a new massive market as very tempting.

Now if SAS believes that the darkies only have some dodgy Universities and they pose no threat, who am I to disagree?

But living near Heathrow and with plenty of Aircraft engineers around I was being told 10 years ago that most plane servicing was moving to cheaper shores. China not America or Australia.

http://www.obsa.org/Lists/Documentac...Airport_EN.pdf

In geographical terms, there is a developing trend
to move into China, the Far East and South America
in pursuit of lower labour costs. In the survey carried out as part of the study, most MRO providers
said that the concerns over service quality in these
emerging areas were gradually receding. Within Europe there has been a move to lower cost countries
in Central and Eastern Europe; e.g. Poland and Hungary

Some of these countries without decent Universities or the skill that apparently flows through our DNA and is difficult to learn have space and nuclear programmes maybe they will do like us and the yanks and import some ex Nazis?

Yes multinationals declare dividends but I doubt they come to the UK much. Various shares I have pay dividends around Europe, most pension funds will be as tax efficient as they come. IMHO The only tax we can really rely on long term is PAYE & VAT.

[gingerjedi]

3d printing is just the start, according to James Burke all we'll need is dirt, water, acetylene and a personal nano factory (probably the hardest part) to make whatever we want.

Even if this did come to fruition I expect the human race will still make bombs and cash to take/buy other people creations... entirely missing the point.

[DodgyAgent]

I believe some inventors have had their products ripped off by Chinese manufacturers. Now they try to get products made as 2 parts so no one company has the design.

Once people get 3D printers (it will happen) it will be interesting to see how inventors can protect their designs.

Just think we will soon be able to print off our own cretin

[BigRed]

It would have been nice to have a 'send them all home' option in the Send em all Home? poll.

[BrilloPad]

I believe some inventors have had their products ripped off by Chinese manufacturers. Now they try to get products made as 2 parts so no one company has the design.

Once people get 3D printers (it will happen) it will be interesting to see how inventors can protect their designs.

[Mich the Tester]

I'm not sure about the hype about 3-D printing - but some say it will revolutionise the world of manufacturing ...

Ummm, yes and no. People thought automated manufacturing would kill off skilled metalworkers and welders, but right here there's more demand for them than ever from machine manufacturers, water and gas companies, specialist shipbuilders and so on. Lots of work for PLC programmers here, lots of work for people who can understand integrating low level machine controls with high level process controls. As I said, you're better off making the things that make stuff, rather than purely making stuff.

[sasguru]

The trick is not to make stuff, but to make the things that make stuff. That's where high precision and advanced R&D come in; there is however an advantage to be gained from keeping your production people and your R&D people close together and cooperating, much like keeping your IT geeks and your 'business' people working together.

I'm not sure about the hype about 3-D printing - but some say it will revolutionise the world of manufacturing ...

[Mich the Tester]

I diaagree with a lot of the doom and gloom.

India and China are vastly over-rated at the moment. India has probably only 2/3 universities which are any good.
There is still a preponderance of know-how in Europe and US (in the US military the advantage is probably about 2 generations).
Its no surprise that where Britain does well is in the advanced skills: aerospace, pharma, life-sciences, and financial rocket science.
Contrary to what people say these are not skills that can be learnt easily. Manufacturing is more easily learnt, although the Germans keep ahead of the chasing pack with innovation and marketing.

The trick is not to make stuff, but to make the things that make stuff. That's where high precision and advanced R&D come in; there is however an advantage to be gained from keeping your production people and your R&D people close together and cooperating, much like keeping your IT geeks and your 'business' people working together.

[sasguru]

Where did I mention loyalty? Apple want to be able to claim their products are "Made in America" because it will enhance their brand and make them more money, they believe. I imagine Apple are smarter than you when it comes to this kind of thing.
.

Not so smart since with the recent scandals everyone knows their stuff is manufactured in Chinese sweat-shops.

[sasguru]

the vast majority I have seen are running their sales & service in western Europe and their production in lower cost countries with fewer regulations and costs.

e.g. Nike,Apple, IBM,HP,Dell & Dyson.

Its cheaper and easier to make stuff there.

Also many profits are made here but are off-shored to avoid tax. Salaries are paid and taxed in the low cost countries. It is great that Starbucks make billions but they need to move the money round the country for it to have an effect.

Smaller companies or ones producing higher quality goods tend to manufacture in the costlier countries, however long term India & China will get a reputation for quality like the Japanese did. then we are truly screwed. We will be in a 20 - 30 year depression while the low cost countries become expensive.

Ship building is like physics / computer / medical research there are only a few centres of excellence where big projects are currently trusted. However we can look forward to Manchester, Reading, MIT & John Hopkins/Guy's being supplanted by Indian,Chinese & Iranian universities or teaching hospitals. I'm sure the same will happen with ship building as the populations skill up.


Its currently a dive to the lowest cost, our governments need to turn it into a glide so we can adjust, but so far they have all failed to do that.

I diaagree with a lot of the doom and gloom.

India and China are vastly over-rated at the moment. India has probably only 2/3 universities which are any good.
There is still a preponderance of know-how in Europe and US (in the US military the advantage is probably about 2 generations).
Its no surprise that where Britain does well is in the advanced skills: aerospace, pharma, life-sciences, and financial rocket science.
Contrary to what people say these are not skills that can be learnt easily. Manufacturing is more easily learnt, although the Germans keep ahead of the chasing pack with innovation and marketing.

[d000hg]

You need to get real.
Rightly or wrongly companies have no loyalty to their community (except maybe in highly "close" societies like Germany with many locally based family-owned companies - and even that is changing).

Where did I mention loyalty? Apple want to be able to claim their products are "Made in America" because it will enhance their brand and make them more money, they believe. I imagine Apple are smarter than you when it comes to this kind of thing.

I was talking about the business advantages of appearing to care about the community, not making some moral case for their "duty" to do so.

[Mich the Tester]

Also many profits are made here but are off-shored to avoid tax. Salaries are paid and taxed in the low cost countries. It is great that Starbucks make billions but they need to move the money round the country for it to have an effect.

Do you know what multinationals do with their profits? They re-invest a bit, and they pay out dividends. Those dividends go to shareholders, who are mostly institutional shareholders running investments for pension firms like the one that will pay out a pension when you stop working. Tax the profits, then less money gets re-invested and less money gets paid out to pension funds, so you suffer.

Really, people seem to think that taxing multinationals' profits is like cracking open the pot of gold under the rainbow. In fact it's exactly like that, because it's imaginary money; everything we do is taxed, so you take more tax from one source, you get less tax from another source. The answer to the problem of funding western European governments is not more tax; it's smaller governments.

[Mich the Tester]

Ship building is like physics / computer / medical research there are only a few centres of excellence where big projects are currently trusted. However we can look forward to Manchester, Reading, MIT & John Hopkins/Guy's being supplanted by Indian,Chinese & Iranian universities or teaching hospitals. I'm sure the same will happen with ship building as the populations skill up.

This will indeed happen if western governments continue to fund people to do useless degrees like Meejah Studies instead of good stuff like the sciences and engineering. Keep developing, keep researching and you can stay a step ahead of the rest.

[vetran]

If this is all true, why are there profitable companies employing thousands of people all over western Europe?

the vast majority I have seen are running their sales & service in western Europe and their production in lower cost countries with fewer regulations and costs.

e.g. Nike,Apple, IBM,HP,Dell & Dyson.

Its cheaper and easier to make stuff there.

Also many profits are made here but are off-shored to avoid tax. Salaries are paid and taxed in the low cost countries. It is great that Starbucks make billions but they need to move the money round the country for it to have an effect.

Smaller companies or ones producing higher quality goods tend to manufacture in the costlier countries, however long term India & China will get a reputation for quality like the Japanese did. then we are truly screwed. We will be in a 20 - 30 year depression while the low cost countries become expensive.

Ship building is like physics / computer / medical research there are only a few centres of excellence where big projects are currently trusted. However we can look forward to Manchester, Reading, MIT & John Hopkins/Guy's being supplanted by Indian,Chinese & Iranian universities or teaching hospitals. I'm sure the same will happen with ship building as the populations skill up.


Its currently a dive to the lowest cost, our governments need to turn it into a glide so we can adjust, but so far they have all failed to do that.

[BrilloPad]

Just send the Bobs back

To France?