Originally posted by doodab
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Reply to: Gay marriage
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Previously on "Gay marriage"
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Originally posted by doodab View PostWhat about a dog that sticks it's nose in your crotch?
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Originally posted by KaiserWilly View PostNote the words "shameful" and "perversity". I wouldn't say G-d is for homosexual behavior any way or another.
I personally lean towards your interpretation however all biblical references to homosexuality are about homosexual sex outside of loving relationships - rape, overflowing lust, etc - so it's hard to be sure when the whole concept of "being gay as a regular person" is a more modern understanding.
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Originally posted by doodab View PostWhat about a dog that sticks it's nose in your crotch?
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Originally posted by d000hg View PostIndeed. He says it's the ideal towards which one can strive, but acknowledges that very few are able to and that it is better to accept that rather than to fail.
Yes, that's what I said. Same-sex acts are seen as depths of perversion "when your blood's up", not an indication of sexuality. It specifically says they "gave up natural relations" - like girls getting drunk and fooling around even though they're not actually gay.
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Originally posted by Old Greg View PostIt is interesting. He appeared to see marriage as a second best to celibacy.
Originally posted by KaiserWilly View PostRomans, chapter 1
"Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity."
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Originally posted by d000hg View Post
This doesn't automatically mean he was against homosexuality itself, just sex outside of marriage which was a man-woman thing and therefore automatically included gay relations.
"Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity."
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Originally posted by d000hg View PostI think Paul lumped homosexual sex in the general category of "sexual immorality" actually. The whole concept of sexual orientation and gender identity was nothing like how we see it these days - homosexuality was often seen as an overspill of depravity a bit like how straight people "turn gay" in prison with no women. Similarly bestiality.
This doesn't automatically mean he was against homosexuality itself, just sex outside of marriage which was a man-woman thing and therefore automatically included gay relations.
…8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
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Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostIf it's the acts that the Bible has an issue with, does that mean that being in a celibate gay marriage is OK?
The Catholic church teaches that people with homosexual tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity and that any sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided, so they must be in favour of (at a minimum) celibate gay marriage, no?
However it would be asking a lot for two normal people to remain celibate for life, which is why in the context of marriage Paul says spouses should come together to have sex rather than risk giving into temptation for immorality (i.e. lust, affairs, buggering small boys, etc)
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Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostThe Catholic church teaches that people with homosexual tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity and that any sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided, so they must be in favour of (at a minimum) celibate gay marriage, no?
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostIt's quite clear from Paul's writings that he considered homosexual acts to be sinful.
The Catholic church teaches that people with homosexual tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity and that any sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided, so they must be in favour of (at a minimum) celibate gay marriage, no?Last edited by TheFaQQer; 23 May 2013, 14:10.
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostIt's quite clear from Paul's writings that he considered homosexual acts to be sinful. It's mentioned in a few places in his letters. The fact that there are no records of Jesus saying anything about homosexuality does not really mean that it can be argued he was ok with it. When arguing from silence, you have to look at the balance of probabilities.
However, out of Paul's writings it was only a very tiny bit overall, so I doubt very much whether it was such a big deal as certain segments of the religious community make it nowadays.
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I think Paul lumped homosexual sex in the general category of "sexual immorality" actually. The whole concept of sexual orientation and gender identity was nothing like how we see it these days - homosexuality was often seen as an overspill of depravity a bit like how straight people "turn gay" in prison with no women. Similarly bestiality.
This doesn't automatically mean he was against homosexuality itself, just sex outside of marriage which was a man-woman thing and therefore automatically included gay relations.
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Originally posted by Old Greg View PostBut maybe 80 year old gay couples could marry because if they were straight they wouldn't be able to have kids anyway.
I'm pretty sure you're right about Jesus. St Paulay have had something to say about it all. But then he had some odd views.
However, out of Paul's writings it was only a very tiny bit overall, so I doubt very much whether it was such a big deal as certain segments of the religious community make it nowadays.
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