Reply to: Feedback from client

[d000hg]

You might be right there. The other thing I notice at this client is that many people assume that everybody has the same understanding of some domain specific term, and people don't as questions for fear of being considered stupid. The result of that will be obvious; when you start asking further, it turns out that 4 different people have 4 different opinions on what something means, and the devs don't actually know what any of it means but are too scared to ask, and meanwhile everyone in the room assumes everyone else know what he's on about.

That reminds me very much of something from Feynman;s autobiography.

[original PM]

don't ask the difficult questions.

put them on the risk log as risks and so when it goes live and falls flat on it's arse you arse is covered...

but yes as a permie you need to stop thinking about doing things and start thinking about how to ensure you do not get the blame when things go wrong!

[Mich the Tester]

I'm starting to wonder whether I'm cut out for this permie thing. I shan't do a Suity just yet though.

[vetran]

That's because I get paid by the day. Over the course of this project, speaking slowly has earned me an extra £1500.

WTFS!!!

[Mich the Tester]

That's because I get paid by the day. Over the course of this project, speaking slowly has earned me an extra £1500.

Or the simple variant; just listen to me when you pay me per word.

[TheFaQQer]

- you speak slowly when you discuss complex issues

That's because I get paid by the day. Over the course of this project, speaking slowly has earned me an extra £1500.

[kingcook]

Doing a consultancy job for permieco's client and I get this feedback;
- you speak slowly when you discuss complex issues
- you ask too many difficult questions

Hmmm, I wonder how I should answer;
- I'm a bit thick so I only speak as quickly as my brain works
- I'm a tester; I've had years of training in asking questions people don't like to answer

Or maybe I'll just shut up and let them screw things up.

That was an important speech, sir, and it needed to be made. Might I suggest, however, that the rest of this discourse is continued by those with brains larger than a grape? -- Kryten, Red Dwarf, Rimmerworld (1993)

[doodab]

unbelievable - what tulip feedback!

I think the problem is you are asking the stakeholders to make decisions they can be held accountable for after the project.

stop it!

WHS. Permies aren't supposed to do this. You need to get a contractor in to stir up tulip and take the blame.

[vetran]

I don't always immediately spot these things because personally I feel no shame in asking what some might call a 'stupid question'; I don't feel the need to parade my intelligence or lack of it in front of colleagues (CUK's always there for that), and I think that the best way to stay stupid is to not ask questions.

Yes definitely an issue.

Just done a BPI for UK team, they had a number of issues that are basically process, some sites had solved the issue other hadn't. Yet at the start the attitude was we are perfect. at the End we had the team agreeing to cross train and track issues. This team has been under one manager for 2 years, scarily I consider him a quite dynamic manager.

[Mich the Tester]

unbelievable - what tulip feedback!

I think the problem is you are asking the stakeholders to make decisions they can be held accountable for after the project.

stop it!

You might be right there. The other thing I notice at this client is that many people assume that everybody has the same understanding of some domain specific term, and people don't as questions for fear of being considered stupid. The result of that will be obvious; when you start asking further, it turns out that 4 different people have 4 different opinions on what something means, and the devs don't actually know what any of it means but are too scared to ask, and meanwhile everyone in the room assumes everyone else know what he's on about. I guess that by asking questions I'm scaring people as it might expose their own lack of understanding. Or of course proving the old adage; 'never assume, it makes an ass out of u and me'.

I don't always immediately spot these things because personally I feel no shame in asking what some might call a 'stupid question'; I don't feel the need to parade my intelligence or lack of it in front of colleagues (CUK's always there for that), and I think that the best way to stay stupid is to not ask questions.

[original PM]

FTFY HTH

cheers!

[eek]

unbelievable - what tulip feedback!

I think the problem is you are asking the stakeholders to make decisions.

stop it!

FTFY HTH

[original PM]

unbelievable - what tulip feedback!

I think the problem is you are asking the stakeholders to make decisions they can be held accountable for after the project.

stop it!

[eek]

oh, you have used OBI?

Yes. I've spent three years keeping as far away from it as humanly possible.

[vetran]

Just deliver some software that changes its mind as often as they do. Then they'll see how it feels.

oh, you have used OBI?