Reply to: New build/freeholds and housing associations

[minestrone]

Street round here was private, council refused to resurface it but when they resurfaced the other roads they parked the lorries and equipment on the private road overnight. Middle class letter writing war was waged on the council and in the end they resurfaced the private road.

[d000hg]

If it is houses with private gardens you should not have this agreement. Possibly it is private streets off road with private lighting, possibly an insurance commitment for the roads. I dunno. I am guessing.

As others have said it may be on a private road, technically maybe an unadopted road. Are the bins done by the council or another company?

I think the road being private might be the thing - bins are done as normal by the council, as was supplying a grit bin. It's a cul-de-sac and the seller did mention lighting.

[Freamon]

As others have said it may be on a private road, technically maybe an unadopted road. Are the bins done by the council or another company?

[minestrone]

If it is houses with private gardens you should not have this agreement. Possibly it is private streets off road with private lighting, possibly an insurance commitment for the roads. I dunno. I am guessing.

[northernladuk]

I don't think it puts off buyers if it is working. If the estate is a couple of years or more old and still looks smart and well kept you have visual evidence it works so won't put off buyers.

Everyone is rushing to buy new houses and most have something like this in some form or other so it is going to part and parcel of buying new properties.

Have to say they can put prices up and offer less than quality service if you get a bad company, which is why we sacked ours at my flat and ran it in house with just an advisory service and it works really well.

Before you right it off get a look at the lease and the costs and judge for yourself.

[minestrone]

I know quite a bit about these things, although having a different legal and conveyancing system up here I am not sure how much this translates.

it is usually in the title deeds that you must have one, I don't know exactly why you would need one if it is a house but the developer and his family probably got a very nice trip to Florida out of it.

They will ramp up the charges, they will make up jobs and say that someone asked for it to be done, probably at night as well and with a hefty call out fee.

You may also find that it will put people off when you come to sell.

[Safe Collections]

Thanks Martin. As this is a regular street - some flats but mostly regular houses - I just don't see what communal areas they are dealing with. As for maintenance, it's not like they are going to come and fix my roof!

Asking the neighbours seems to make sense. I know the street and it's very nice, but it simply seems an extra fee. Maybe I'll phone the company up and ask what they actually DO.

It will be an extra fee and it is highly likely to be contained within the covenants. From personal experience these fees go up year on year and the management company will try and claim for all kinds of shenanigans... However as a freeholder you can generally expect no assistance from the management company. They will definitely not fix your roof!

It is worth bearing in mind that if you disagree with the fees once you own the freehold you can apply to the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal to see if the charges are fair and proportional.

As an added bonus, these lease charges can put off any potential buyers in the future...

However it could simply be that our own experience is skewed by the dizzying ineptitude of the management company...

[northernladuk]

It appears then that the devil is in the details so you have to get a copy of the lease and read it... very very carefully.

It is likely to have things along the lines off...

No commercial vehicles to be parked on the road overnight
Washing lines are either not allowed or must be decent size or not visible from road or something
Frontage of house must be kept clean and tidy
Bins not to be visible from road except on delivery days
No dishes or ariels attached the front of the property
Cars should not be parked on the pavement...

And so on. A couple of them are taken from the lease on my ground floor flat so may not be applicable to houses.

I say again. Read the lease very very carefully. If someone complains about the slightest thing and it is on the lease they will chase it.

As Martin says it can be a nightmare but it can keep the estate looking very smart if done properly.

[Martin@AS Financial]

Thanks Martin. As this is a regular street - some flats but mostly regular houses - I just don't see what communal areas they are dealing with. As for maintenance, it's not like they are going to come and fix my roof!

Asking the neighbours seems to make sense. I know the street and it's very nice, but it simply seems an extra fee. Maybe I'll phone the company up and ask what they actually DO.

No problems at all. Is it a private road or is their any shared garden space because this would be deemed common areas?

At the end of the day, you have to think about the future re-sale value and a bad management company will have a negative impact on your equity levels.

[eek]

Thanks Martin. As this is a regular street - some flats but mostly regular houses - I just don't see what communal areas they are dealing with. As for maintenance, it's not like they are going to come and fix my roof!

Asking the neighbours seems to make sense. I know the street and it's very nice, but it simply seems an extra fee. Maybe I'll phone the company up and ask what they actually DO.

The management company is usually the pension fund of the house builder's directors. I found this out a while ago when my parents bought a flat back where they were brought up.

[d000hg]

Thanks Martin. As this is a regular street - some flats but mostly regular houses - I just don't see what communal areas they are dealing with. As for maintenance, it's not like they are going to come and fix my roof!

Asking the neighbours seems to make sense. I know the street and it's very nice, but it simply seems an extra fee. Maybe I'll phone the company up and ask what they actually DO.

[Martin@AS Financial]

Yeah but if someone else starts being a dick they are on your side. They have the same in flats to cover communal areas and gardens etc. We had a company doing it but they were bloody awful so bought it out and ran it in house with some of the tenants being directors. Problem is they worry too much about enforcement and complain if people's blinds are crooked etc. Upside is if something annoying does happen like bad parking or bad tenants in one of the flats they are all over them as well.

If you need to complain about the bloke next door parking his white van half on and off the kerb you can complain to them and they will point out he can't in the terms of the lease.

If you keep your nose clean and agree with the terms they can help the estate stay nice. They can help with people not looking after their gardens or having animals crapping everywhere etc.

Busy bodies yes but if it is something that bothers you can be useful.

From my experience it is written in to the legal details of the properties so you can't opt out that I am aware.

100% agree with this. A good management company are worth their weight in gold. Essentially they have power of authority in the event of a dispute with your neighbour. They are also responsible for the upkeep of all common areas. Part of the service charge you pay into is kept in a sinking fund for all essential maintainance on the development.

A bad management company is on the otherhand an absolute nightmare. When work needs to be done, eg security gates not working, they ignore calls and don't respond to emails but still take the monthly service charge. Before you purchase, speak to your potential neighbours to get their opinion of the current management company because if they are not performing, I would genuinely walk away from the purchase. Also, find out what other developments they manage and maybe take a drive over to see what sort of state they are in.

[d000hg]

Wouldn't any covenants in the deeds list the charges and what you get for your money?

I have no idea... never owned property in this scenario.

Is this normally linked to the leasehold nature of new builds, or something fundamental to the property?

The company managing it are a big one, based the other end of the country. It's not clear if this is in some way a private road... the owner of the property thought they provided some streetlights but it seems like money for old rope to me For flats I can see it makes sense.

[Troll]

A house we're looking at is in a new build (a nice one) which apparently is managed by some firm. It's not a gated community or anything and I don't really know what they do other than charge a monthly fee.

Does anyone know the deal with these things, and if there's a way to opt out? The only evidence I have they exist is that they send out newsletters asking people to make sure the bins are kept tidy... sounds like a bunch of busybodies to me.

Wouldn't any covenants in the deeds list the charges and what you get for your money?

[northernladuk]

Yeah but if someone else starts being a dick they are on your side. They have the same in flats to cover communal areas and gardens etc. We had a company doing it but they were bloody awful so bought it out and ran it in house with some of the tenants being directors. Problem is they worry too much about enforcement and complain if people's blinds are crooked etc. Upside is if something annoying does happen like bad parking or bad tenants in one of the flats they are all over them as well.

If you need to complain about the bloke next door parking his white van half on and off the kerb you can complain to them and they will point out he can't in the terms of the lease.

If you keep your nose clean and agree with the terms they can help the estate stay nice. They can help with people not looking after their gardens or having animals crapping everywhere etc.

Busy bodies yes but if it is something that bothers you can be useful.

From my experience it is written in to the legal details of the properties so you can't opt out that I am aware.