Reply to: Flat-rate State Pension - Opinions?

[SueEllen]

DA you have a lot of trust in UK politicians.

I have absolutely no trust in the majority of them and the civil servants who support them.

They actually use the EU rules as excuses not to do things properly i.e. giving tenders to companies in other countries when I know full well that other EU countries can and do legally get around the EU tender requirements giving their companies a home advantage so they get awarded them.

[formant]

I am afraid that it is a red herring. You do not seem to have factored in that the Uk holds an enormous amount of influence and that it would not be in the EUs interests to punish the UK or delay. There are too many "scare" mongerers around and when one looks at their agendas there is no reason to be scared at all.

Yes there will be costs to getting out of the EU but they will most likely be well worth the potential rewards.

So considering that people want the UK to leave EU because currently the UK doesn't have enough of a say to dictate their desired terms -

you really think that dictating terms from the outside is going to be any easier? After we've p-ssed them all off?

The UK is influential, no doubt, but nowhere near as as much as the remaining EU would be collectively.

[Robinho]

It really depends what we did if we left Dodgy.

If we cut the tax across the board and became effectively an EU tax haven, cut onerous regulation etc then it'd be worth leaving.

If we leave and labour get into power or the tories are too pussy and just continue with the same tripe there's not much point in leaving.

[DodgyAgent]

No, not at all. I'm saying that we currently have Open Skies agreements through the EU, for example with the US (EU). If we leave, we'll need to renegotiate independent ones of those as we won't be covered by the existing one, not just with the US, but also with the EU (they may make this less favourable for us). That takes time and is intermittently somewhat unpredictably costly. It can be sorted, but it won't be immediate.

This doesn't just affect low-cost airlines, although no doubt Easyjet and the likes probably profit most from the existing arrangements.

There are many more such policies that an EU exit would affect and that may work out less favorably if the UK applies as a non-EU member.

I am afraid that it is a red herring. You do not seem to have factored in that the Uk holds an enormous amount of influence and that it would not be in the EUs interests to punish the UK or delay. There are too many "scare" mongerers around and when one looks at their agendas there is no reason to be scared at all.

Yes there will be costs to getting out of the EU but they will most likely be well worth the potential rewards.

[Robinho]

It could be negotiated between saying we're leaving the EU and leaving. BA and Iberia have merged now and AA have ATI with BA so neither the US or the EU will be looking to create onerous trade barriers.

It also means we get out of the stupid carbon tax the EU are imposing.

[formant]

What is interesting here is the notion that change is impossible. The reasons that are being thrown up are purely negative.

Change isn't impossible at all, but in this instance it costs more than it would ever be worth (my opinion). In more objective terms: It just costs a hell of a lot.

And it's neither quick nor simple.

[formant]

So you are saying then that mile for mile if I were to look up flights on budget airlines that flying to a destination outside of the EU will cost considerably more than inside?

No, not at all. I'm saying that we currently have Open Skies agreements through the EU, for example with the US (EU). If we leave, we'll need to renegotiate independent ones of those as we won't be covered by the existing one, not just with the US, but also with the EU (they may make this less favourable for us). That takes time and is intermittently somewhat unpredictably costly. It can be sorted, but it won't be immediate.

This doesn't just affect low-cost airlines, although no doubt Easyjet and the likes probably profit most from the existing arrangements.

There are many more such policies that an EU exit would affect and that may work out less favorably if the UK applies as a non-EU member.

[DodgyAgent]

What country has left the EU?

How much do Norway and Switzerland pay for not being in the EU?

Why do lots of Norwegian companies ensure they have an office somewhere like Sweden?

Why do car manufacturers like the UK?

What is interesting here is the notion that change is impossible. The reasons that are being thrown up are purely negative.

Does it matter that no one has left the EU already?
The point about Switzerland and Norway is not the cost of staying outside of the EU it is that they have the choice. It is also no coincidence that both their economies are in a much healthier state than any other country in the EU.
As for Norwegian companies have of having offices in the EU you will probably find that most International companies have offices in other parts of the EU just as Norway does. I think you will also find that most companies involved in the Oil & Gas industry have offices in Norway
Car manufacturers like the UK because they can build and sell cars here and sell them to Europe.

Do you people who try to put the fear of god into those who want change have any real proof that the UK withdrawing from the EU would be bad for the UK?

[DodgyAgent]

An EU exit would require the UK to negotiate new, possibly less favourable Open Skies Agreements with the EU, US, ASEAN, etc. Although likely to be sorted out over time, this would massively impact the cost of airtravel in the immediate future.

So you are saying then that mile for mile if I were to look up flights on budget airlines that flying to a destination outside of the EU will cost considerably more than inside?

[formant]

i have no interest in answering any of her silly questions.

You would if you could come up with something (you thought was) clever.

[Robinho]

The only reason you're talking about the EU is that you don't want to admit that the visa auction is a good way of providing a sensible level and type of immigration.

SueEllen has a long history of attacking me and then running away when i point out where she's wrong. So no, i have no interest in answering any of her silly questions.

[formant]

You took this discussion seriously off-track by forcing your visa-auction-idea back in, which (according to you) comes with the requirement of leaving the EU.

Now, are you going to answer her questions or are you going to give up, cause someone (other than me) is well on track to prove you wrong?

Reminder:

How much do Norway and Switzerland pay for not being in the EU?

Why do lots of Norwegian companies ensure they have an office somewhere like Sweden?

Why do car manufacturers like the UK?

[Robinho]

I don't even know why we are talking about the EU tbh.

[formant]

I'd still love to see you (attempt to) answer SueEllen's remaining questions properly.

[Robinho]

Ahh, yes, you have the arguments where you simply belittle and/or insult the other person.