Reply to: Least reliable cars 1997 - 2012

[hyperD]

If TVR still made cars that list would read more like their production catalogue.

Easy, tiger!

[northernladuk]

If TVR still made cars that list would read more like their production catalogue.

[Lockhouse]

The people who appreciate cars are liable to be more picky and find fault more easily. This is why you get a load of boring cars on the reliability lists and more interesting cars on this list.

edit; The CL and the Bentley are mega cars for not much money, so the people that buy these sometimes forget that the maintenance costs mega car prices so try and skimp with the expected results.

[the_rangdo]

Need to factor in driving style.

A Corolla isn't the most fun to drive, and you wouldn't buy one for fun.

A higher powered car is likely to be driven harder. Most BMW drivers (of which I'm one before anyone gets all defensive) seem to drive like they just stole it. Fine for a race car that gets a full service after each race but with service intervals of many 000's of miles it can't help longevity. And most on the roads are probably on contract anyway so the driver doesn't care less.

Also wonder how many of the unreliable ones have had engine remappings as well, got to squeeze every last hp out of that thing

[VectraMan]

No, the opposite is not true in the case of manufacturing. No two items are identical when it comes to producing items like Engines etc. The manufacturing process is identical but the materials, environment conditions etc differ and they all result in faults. I know because I have been in a manufacturing industry as apprentice and seen first hand how no two items were the same.

But that doesn't make small volume production more reliable. If you have to make 100 of something, it might come down to a bloke with a hammer, whereas the only way you make a million of something is investing in precision machinery with strict controls over materials and conditions etc. That was the point I was making.

And in reality, the Japanese manufacturers tend not only to produce the most reliable cars, they also have the most productive factories. That wouldn't be the case if they had more quality control issues.

[OwlHoot]

I believe that Jag cleaned up their reliability issues in the late '90's. I know a couple of people with high mileage Jags and apart from expensive servicing (probably not much different from BMW or Merc though) they haven't moaned about bits falling off or going twang.

Mine has 170K on the clock and still runs pretty well. The only fairly expensive thing that went kaput recently (not due to a prang on my part) was one of the coils. These are about £150 a pop, and with several to go pop that could work out quite expensive. (The garage says any of the others could and very likely will go at any moment!)

edit: Has doohg said anything interesting above? He's on my ignore list.

[d000hg]

No, the opposite is not true in the case of manufacturing. No two items are identical when it comes to producing items like Engines etc. The manufacturing process is identical but the materials, environment conditions etc differ and they all result in faults. I know because I have been in a manufacturing industry as apprentice and seen first hand how no two items were the same.

While you may be right, high-end niche cars like Ferraris have terrible reliability compared to mass-produced budget trash like Kia.

[fullyautomatix]

The Germans make innovative but unreliable cars whereas the Japanese make boring but reliable ones.

I´ve passed lots of broken down Mercs and BMW´s on the Autobahn, but they do look gr8.

Mercs look the best. BMW are not that good and Audis look horrible. IMO.

[BlasterBates]

The Germans make innovative but unreliable cars whereas the Japanese make boring but reliable ones.

I´ve passed lots of broken down Mercs and BMW´s on the Autobahn, but they do look gr8.

[fullyautomatix]

I think the opposite is true. Mass production means everything produced identically, with identical high standards, otherwise it just wouldn't work.

No, the opposite is not true in the case of manufacturing. No two items are identical when it comes to producing items like Engines etc. The manufacturing process is identical but the materials, environment conditions etc differ and they all result in faults. I know because I have been in a manufacturing industry as apprentice and seen first hand how no two items were the same.

[VectraMan]

In a reliability index what matters is the production levels. If Ferrari produce 100 cars a year they can make sure that they have 100% reliability. If Toyota mass produce millions a year they will have more difficulty in quality control.

I think the opposite is true. Mass production means everything produced identically, with identical high standards, otherwise it just wouldn't work.

And Ferrari owners probably have their cars serviced more often than they drive them, whereas old Toyotas get used and abused.

Honda claim to have no engine failures in a million.

I'd love to know who came up with that myth. There's some nonsense you often hear repeated about "no VTEC engine has ever failed", and what they actually meant was no failures for the VTEC system itself, and then they were only talking about under warranty. I've personally had one Honda VTEC engine failure out of two, and I know someone who's had four out of five. And you certainly don't want to buy an 09 S2000.

[TykeMerc]

Curiously, there's no Jaguar on that list.

I must say mine has always been reliable, but they used to have a terrible reputation.

I believe that Jag cleaned up their reliability issues in the late '90's. I know a couple of people with high mileage Jags and apart from expensive servicing (probably not much different from BMW or Merc though) they haven't moaned about bits falling off or going twang.

[Lockhouse]

Currently saving for a Conti....

[fullyautomatix]

In a reliability index what matters is the production levels. If Ferrari produce 100 cars a year they can make sure that they have 100% reliability. If Toyota mass produce millions a year they will have more difficulty in quality control.

Contrary to what Dim said about Toyota being driven once a week by a pensioner, Japanese cars normally pass through a stringent quality control regime to make sure each and every car has a level of reliability about them. Honda claim to have no engine failures in a million.

Difference between japanese production and others is that japanese do not tolerate faults in manufacturing and tend to discard defected parts whereas other profit minded companies tend to ignore defects realised in quality control and hence they have a higher number of faulty vehicles.

[lilelvis2000]

Apparently, German cars are tulipe. Which is okay with me because i only buy either vintage british or Japanese.