Reply to: So Lance Armstrong is a liar and a cheat

[Robinho]

Hah, it certainly wasn't about the bike.

[NickFitz]

Meanwhile, in a charity shop:

[Zippy]

congratulations you have won of the day for that diatribe of bullsh!t

And in the face of some stiff competition

[MyUserName]

congratulations you have won of the day for that diatribe of bullsh!t

Damn ... and your opinion just means soooo much to me

[DodgyAgent]

When I used to kickbox - I cheated, everything I thought I could get away with. From deliberating doing the trip/push then quickly thowing a punch to try to make it look like a knock down - right up to undoing the stitching on my gloves to remove some of the padding.

The reason I did it was simple, everyone else was doing it so I had to in order to equalise the playing field. My opponents were doing things like deliberately kicking to the groin etc and simply soaking a point deduction so I had to as well or I would be at a huge disadvantage. As it happens I was always tulipe but I least I could proudly say it was not because I was not cheating enough.

I would guess this would be true on a larger scale at this kind of level, if you are not juicing you will never win so juice up or change jobs. It is a shame he is getting hit so hard with this as it is understandable, the trouble is that the only way you can combat this is to make it not worth risking which involves hammering people you catch hard.

congratulations you have won of the day for that diatribe of bullsh!t

[MyUserName]

When I used to kickbox - I cheated, everything I thought I could get away with. From deliberating doing the trip/push then quickly thowing a punch to try to make it look like a knock down - right up to undoing the stitching on my gloves to remove some of the padding.

The reason I did it was simple, everyone else was doing it so I had to in order to equalise the playing field. My opponents were doing things like deliberately kicking to the groin etc and simply soaking a point deduction so I had to as well or I would be at a huge disadvantage. As it happens I was always tulipe but I least I could proudly say it was not because I was not cheating enough.

I would guess this would be true on a larger scale at this kind of level, if you are not juicing you will never win so juice up or change jobs. It is a shame he is getting hit so hard with this as it is understandable, the trouble is that the only way you can combat this is to make it not worth risking which involves hammering people you catch hard.

[d000hg]

Lol, OH's logic is that because the pro athletes make him look puny, they must be cheating.

[DodgyAgent]

Which part of it's all about how you feel I guess and I just think they mask them better did you think made me think I had proof?

I just believe it. I played sport all my life, and was, and still am, very fit. Yet, I look at todays rugby players and am sure something is going on. 17 stone outside centres, wingers, built like monsters, Usain Bolt who looks like he's running to a guide time every time he runs 100m, and looks like he's holding back, cyclists who are almost Herculean.

It's something you feel, rightly or wrongly. Some think it's nutrition, training, and conditioning that have improved, which obviously it has, but for me, I think there's something else. Just an opinion after all.

rugby players take protein enhancers and they spend far more time in the gym than ever they used to, also their training is very much focussed according to the needs of the sport so they train to build muscle where it matters.

[Mich the Tester]

Which part of it's all about how you feel I guess and I just think they mask them better did you think made me think I had proof?

I just believe it. I played sport all my life, and was, and still am, very fit. Yet, I look at todays rugby players and am sure something is going on. 17 stone outside centres, wingers, built like monsters, Usain Bolt who looks like he's running to a guide time every time he runs 100m, and looks like he's holding back, cyclists who are almost Herculean.

It's something you feel, rightly or wrongly. Some think it's nutrition, training, and conditioning that have improved, which obviously it has, but for me, I think there's something else. Just an opinion after all.

Nope, the difference is that in the past they'd have automatically been forwards, but now the big guys often play in the backs. Looking at the current bunch, I actually see less freaky types than 10 years ago.

As for Bolt, I don't see what he could have gained from steroids; he doesn't have particularly huge muscle mass. And as for stimulants, the other main doping group used by sprinters, I don't think so either; his big improvement came when his running technique improved; stimulants don't really help coordination, and neither does the fast muscle growth from steroids. Also; in the past Bolt would have been told to run the 400, the thinking being that very tall men couldn't coordinate their legs well enough to run the 100. Or perhaps he'd have been a fast bowler in the mould of Ambrose, Walsh, Holding et al, all very fast runners themselves. I don't see any reason to point the finger at Bolt.

SO why have performances improved? Well, it's possibly training; advances in understanding physiological reactions to training have gone very quickly in the last 20 years and have spread through lots of sports. Sprinters in running and on bikes train almost the opposite way around to 20 years ago. Back then you were told to build endurance or aerobic fitness first, then to build strength endurance, then maximum strenght, then speed stength, then speed. Nowadays you start by training speed and power, and if you need a bit of endurance for a stretched sprint like the 200 or 400, or the Kilo in cycling, you add that training to the end, almost as if it's an afterthought (which it obviously isn't). Athletes spend much less time doing pointless stretches which release the muscle tension you actually need for speed. Plus; these days, probably every single explosive athlete is using creatine, and using it far more effectively than when people experimented in the past. These are radical changes in thinking which are producing big results; you'll probably see the improvements dropping off again as time goes by.

[Old Hack]

You have no evidence of that at all. just like a conspiracy theory or religious dogma anything can be said without proof.
If sport as you say descends into a free for all for drug enhancements then it will become nothing more than a freak show. This would put kids off wanting to play sport and destroy a facet of life that is important in enabling human beings to find happiness.

Which part of it's all about how you feel I guess and I just think they mask them better did you think made me think I had proof?

I just believe it. I played sport all my life, and was, and still am, very fit. Yet, I look at todays rugby players and am sure something is going on. 17 stone outside centres, wingers, built like monsters, Usain Bolt who looks like he's running to a guide time every time he runs 100m, and looks like he's holding back, cyclists who are almost Herculean.

It's something you feel, rightly or wrongly. Some think it's nutrition, training, and conditioning that have improved, which obviously it has, but for me, I think there's something else. Just an opinion after all.

[Mich the Tester]

You have no evidence of that at all. just like a conspiracy theory or religious dogma anything can be said without proof.
If sport as you say descends into a free for all for drug enhancements then it will become nothing more than a freak show. This would put kids off wanting to play sport and destroy a facet of life that is important in enabling human beings to find happiness.

WHS. A lot of tulip went on. Now a lot is being done to prevent it, and that's a good thing.

[DodgyAgent]

That's cool, it's all about how you feel I guess and I just think they mask them better. I genuinely think we'll hear of some new masking agent, then the tulip will hit the fan again. I am not saying it's 99.9%, but I do think its quite significant.

You have no evidence of that at all. just like a conspiracy theory or religious dogma anything can be said without proof.
If sport as you say descends into a free for all for drug enhancements then it will become nothing more than a freak show. This would put kids off wanting to play sport and destroy a facet of life that is important in enabling human beings to find happiness.

[Mich the Tester]

I disagree. I look at the British performances in the Olympics and can't see any obvious juicers. Football, Rugby, Tennis? You get the occasional scandal but it's far from the norm.

Track and field, gymnastics, pro cycling - there probably the worst affected, but I think things have improved greatly over the last 10 years.

I think it's under control in rugby right now, as the players actually seem to be getting slimmer recently, but in the late 90s and early 2000s I saw guys playing international and first class rugby that I'd known in colts, under 21s and student rugby; even the shape of their faces had changed. Bigger jaws, wider faces; typical testosterone look. There was a lot of interesting stuff going on in the early days of officially pro rugby union, and quite a bit in the shamateur days.

[Old Hack]

I disagree. I look at the British performances in the Olympics and can't see any obvious juicers. Football, Rugby, Tennis? You get the occasional scandal but it's far from the norm.

Track and field, gymnastics, pro cycling - there probably the worst affected, but I think things have improved greatly over the last 10 years.

That's cool, it's all about how you feel I guess and I just think they mask them better. I genuinely think we'll hear of some new masking agent, then the tulip will hit the fan again. I am not saying it's 99.9%, but I do think its quite significant.

[TheBigD]

But I actually believe cheating is the norm, and that being clean isn't.

I genuinely believe all that is happening, is that the dopers run in front of the testers. We'd still not know about Armstrong if he hadn't been dobbed in, 10 years and more after the fact. We only found about some of the bad ones 10 years or so after their feats.

I would say it's endemic in sport.

It's why part of me is tempted to say do what you want. As I said, at least we'd then know it was a level playing field.

I disagree. I look at the British performances in the Olympics and can't see any obvious juicers. Football, Rugby, Tennis? You get the occasional scandal but it's far from the norm.

Track and field, gymnastics, pro cycling - there probably the worst affected, but I think things have improved greatly over the last 10 years.