Reply to: Culture Wars

[Mich the Tester]

England is my house.

That's quite large; your heating bills must be impressive.

[escapeUK]

Well here we go then. I think that everybody has a right to decide who they let into their house and who they don't. Therefore, the Asian family have every right to demand that the carers are of Asian origin, and even every right to demand 'no blacks'. Nobody should be forced to follow any particular 'culture' in their own home or to adapt their culture, alien or not, in their own home.

England is my house.

[Mich the Tester]

I think someone needs to!

Well here we go then. I think that everybody has a right to decide who they let into their house and who they don't. Therefore, the Asian family have every right to demand that the carers are of Asian origin, and even every right to demand 'no blacks'. Nobody should be forced to follow any particular 'culture' in their own home or to adapt their culture, alien or not, in their own home.

Of course, Mrs EO should then have the right to tell them to shove their care requests up their arses and accept the fact that they won't be getting any care as of now. That way, the available carers can be sent to work for people who are more appreciative of their efforts.

Will that do?

[Scoobos]

I think someone needs to!

[Troll]

If we all agree in General, then what section of society is it thats tolerating this?

> HTH

[Mich the Tester]

ok so I've written a wall of text without reading the whole thread, but it goes to show that we mostly agree on concensus.

If we all agree in General, then what section of society is it thats tolerating this?

Do you need me to disagree just to avoid that terrible possibility?

[BA to the Stars]

The day that happens, Hell will freeze over.

aachooo!

[cailin maith]

If we all agree in General,

The day that happens, Hell will freeze over.

[Scoobos]

ok so I've written a wall of text without reading the whole thread, but it goes to show that we mostly agree on concensus.

If we all agree in General, then what section of society is it thats tolerating this?

[Scoobos]

These things happen because we allow them.

You'll have to excuse me, I don't know if you're from UK or not, but here we have a bunch of spineless sycophants who cannot think for themselves if their life depended on it. These are the people who allow things like this to happen.

In my eyes, I couldn't give a freaking tulip where you are from and what rules there are where you come from. If you miss them and want to live by them then bloody go back where you came from.

You know what they say ... when in Rome ...

Anyway, don't get me started on the subject ...

Most people know I'm a soft liberal sort of guy but I totally agree with this.

We've (my Wife and I) have been all round the world living and working, in Hindu, Muslim, Catholic & many other "Seperate" cultures.

Everywhere we have been we have made sure to read up on whats acceptable and what isn't (hiding your ankles, or shoulders, or whatever) and we've been sure to follow them. We are proud of our heritage and want our hosts to think we are considerate.

What really really angers me is when tolerance in our country is less than that in the immigrant's country of origin.

A little story I have was from a mosque in KL , Malaysia - the guys knew about Preston and said yeah we had some people here who were annoyed that the mosque is on the same street as the hindu temple and left because we weren't devout enough. They were not tolerated, as Malaysia despite having more Muslim people than any other country in the world, allows freedom of religion and a choice to opt in to each religions laws and customs. The fellas I was speaking to over there were really mad at the attempts to include sharia law in the UK when its not enforced in Malaysia! (Muslims only follow it).

Why is it that we are accepting Halal food to be everywhere, when it is in the texts that its fine to eat Non-Halal when it isn't available... I don't want to eat Halal / Kosher, or anything other than what is culturally acceptable to me, in my country of origin - is that racist?

I don't think its racist to say that its unacceptable to choose to live in another country and then expect your host country to enforce customs and laws, that aren't even acceptable in your own.

Bottom line is, I think the "policy setters" here are ignorant of how some of these cultures actually work and assume that it's correct. So we end up making provisions here and tolerating things here that aren't even tolerated in the countries of origin. Absolute stupidity, and all its ending up with is us attracting extreme nutters. (and I mean any religion, despite using the malaysia example)


That sort of stuff grinds my gears too <end>

[Gibbon]

This is straying too far from the blind difference liberalism (NOT THE POLITICAL PARTY) philosphy that this countries laws are based. This was developed from a treatise on toleration written by the venerable John Locke in the mid 17th cen in the midst of the religous wars sweeping europe.

They should not have the extra right to demand the racial or cultural attributes of their carers apart from if intimate care is required by a female. The wider population does not have the same right to demand this and neither should they. If they can't accept this then the vunerable people should go into residental care taking all the benefits with them. Simples.

[vetran]

Of course, if you move to another culture you should change who you are to fit in? Never mind those generations of culture and your own identity.

Um, we're talking about what happens in the Asian person's home in EO's scenario.

If you go to another country you need to respect their laws & culture.

If EO had turned up with his wife giving her a lift he would probably have been seen as the person in charge because he was male.

They have specifically asked that people from a certain racial background do not attend to them.

They have decided that due to age someone is more senior despite information to the contrary.

they have broken 3 laws. This isn't about culture its about the law of the land.

Easy way to find out if its discrimination imagine the situation again, replace the protagonist with a white guy hen change the victims to a minority if required and see if you would find the comments offensive. I would, so yes they are racist, sexist and ageist.

Culture is fine, if they need to pray, dress modestly (safely) or specify restrictions that only affect them and do not discriminate then most people have no problem with their culture.

If they only want someone older, female and no blacks then lock em up! Or tell them they can't do that.

[NotAllThere]

...
Um, we're talking about what happens in the Asian person's home in EO's scenario.

No, we are talking about how a UK service interacts with an Asian person's home. While respect for cultural sensibilities is fine, kowtowing to it isn't.

The family should have been told from the outset: if you want help from the government, then you'll accept whoever it is we send, no matter what village they came from back home.

When the carer is in the house, they are NOT in Asia, and their own cultural identity is subordinate to their profession. They're in the house to do the job. If they're lording it over the people to whom they're supposed to be providing a service, then they're not doing their job properly.

I've had cultural clashes with my in-laws (s.e. Asian). At first they expected me to entirely accomodate their cultural mores. I resisted this, there were a few heated discussions, and now we get on fine.

[EternalOptimist]

I wonder who pays for that care, how much are you willing to bet that it's the taxpayers who pick up the bill ? I am also willing to bet that the house itself is funded from the same source.

absolutely.

the point of the story is that running a team like this is a full time job. there is no slack allowed to take all this stuff into the equation

but its being dumped on her, and she has to try to manage it. she's doing it for free in effect

and it IS alien.


let's imagine the gas man came around to read your meter, he is ten years older than you. So he has the perfect right to say 'make me a cup of tea, lend me a tenner and what were you doing talking to that bird last night. dont let me see that happen again.
see you in twelve months. byee'

[Old Hack]

It has nothing to do with that. As a foreigner, if you go somewhere else you should be prepared to embrace that culture and become part of it. Otherwise what is the point ?

If you don't like it, don't go there, it's as simple as that and more importantly do not impose your ways onto those people.

Does it make sense ?
How would you feel if I came into your house and ask you to bugger off because in my country the law says I can choose any house I want and kick the rightful owner out when I please, simply because I own more cows ...
Heck I'll even take your woman while I am at it, not the children though, you can keep those ...

I know, we did that when we took over India, Australia, America....

The trouble is, we are complaining about something we actually started, and it's quite amusing.

I don't mind anyone coming to this country and hanging on to their own culture, I like the diversification. However, on the carer from, I would be very sure they did as the system did, and then negotiate, rather than demand and impose themselves on the system.

What churches, shops, etc, etc they use after this fact, means nothing.