Reply to: State Religion

[KimberleyChris]

'It has served us well, this myth of Christ'

Cor...even I had to Google that :-)

Maybe a man, maybe a prophet, maybe a composite figure, maybe just a noble aspiration like King Arthur.

We will never know.

[Churchill]

As you say...actually no.

He was against the established 'state' religion of the time. Advocating a personal 1:1 relationship with god, rather than the entrenched 'religious machine' of the temple etc.

A bit like the split between 'orthodox' and 'reform' Judaism.

Trust me, my boy.....sheesh! (if u know vot I mean :-)

Remember that he didn't preach Christianity. He was born, lived and died a practicing Jew.

'It has served us well, this myth of Christ'

[KimberleyChris]

Doooig.

Please put me on your ignore list, and I will put you back on mine.

My posts are not written for the likes of you.

I don't want you to see my posts, any more than I want to see your offensive ramblings.

[d000hg]

Well, presumably your bible does not include Matthew or Acts.

Hmmm...

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Anyway, bored of feeding the troll now.

[KimberleyChris]

This entire post is tripe and misinformation of the highest order.
Finding a bible verse to support something you want is hardly difficult. It's the same thing tabloids do to make sensationalist headlines which are untrue but just avoid being caught under libel laws.

Well, presumably your bible does not include Matthew or Acts.

Like I said earlier:

"I now regard belief in God as an indicator of mental illness and/or a weak, suggestible logic-free mind".

After reading through your historical posts, I see that I am probably right.

[d000hg]

T
I wasn't aware of this myself until some years back, but there are a lot of people who subscribe to the words of Jesus of Nazareth (as a human being) but they do not believe in God.

Given that much/most of Jesus' teaching was about dedicating yourself to God, it's hardly a good foundation for an atheist world view. Sure, you can cherry-pick the snippets that avoid this, but if you're going to pick and choose to that level it's all meaningless.

Coupled with the fact Jesus taught he was God, you're suggesting Atheists follow the non-religious teaching of a deluded religious loon... hardly casts the non-religious teaching in a strong light as the basis for a moral code.

[d000hg]

I actually agree that "state religion" is daft, not because I don't think religion should be involved, but because our "state Christianity" is simply empty tradition, a hollow shell with nothing behind it. It only serves to promote the "fuddy duddy" image of the CofE which is typically what people think Christianity is.

The veneer of religion that is part of "being English" is more of a hindrance than a help.

[d000hg]

Remember that he didn't preach Christianity. He was born, lived and died a practicing Jew.

Wow, what a revelation!

I believe that all children should be educated together and not segregated into different faiths.

I went to a "faith school" (actually 2) and there was no segregation or great emphasis on religion beyond having termly assemblies in churches etc. People who were not religious sent their kids there because it was one of the better achieving schools.

Taken from the National Secular Society: <snip>

Ah yes that shy, retiring, unbiased bunch. They are more invested in foisting their own view of how things should be run on others than many religious groups.

Nope...Jesus was only talking to his fellow Jews.

Matt. 10:5 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles"

Matt. 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

It was Paul of Tarsus (who largely 'invented' Christianity, despite never having met Jesus in his lifetime, but only in a convenient vision) who inflicted it on us :-)

This entire post is tripe and misinformation of the highest order.
Finding a bible verse to support something you want is hardly difficult. It's the same thing tabloids do to make sensationalist headlines which are untrue but just avoid being caught under libel laws.

[KimberleyChris]

There is also a third way.

I wasn't aware of this myself until some years back, but there are a lot of people who subscribe to the words of Jesus of Nazareth (as a human being) but they do not believe in God.

It has some sense if you think about it. Judaism was the religion 'of' Jesus, and Christianity is a religion 'about' Jesus.

Obviously Jesus (as a jewish man) believed in God, but it is not necessary to beiieve in God to (try to) understand his words, and if you choose, act upon them.

One of the best reads is 'The Jefferson Bible' 'edited' by the same Thomas Jefferson who became president of the USA. He was unhappy with all the supernatural hocus-pocus in the Bible, so he took out the bits he liked and literally cut-and-pasted them into a bible for his own use and study.

The result is an account of his physical life and words, minus the miracles, resurrection etc, which starts with his birth and ends abruptly when the stone is rolled over the door of his tomb.

It's public domain and can be downloaded via its Wikipedia page.

Perhaps this is really what Christians mean when they say 'a Christian country'. India is a 'Ghandiist' country, but Ghandi was not of divine origin.

[xoggoth]

how it simply isn't needed.

We've done this before but if you actually check WHO figures of murder vs surveys of belief there is, if anything, a negative correlation. Reducing crime is about a decent standard of living, good education, a stable society, and an effective justice system, all things which also tend to lead to reduction in religious faith.

Religion probably does not not do any harm but if you look at violent places like Jamaica, Pakistan, Somalia, South Africa, Mexico etc which have much higher levels of faith than we do, it does not obviously do any good either.

[BrilloPad]

Here would be a great opportunity to show how outmoded all that religion is; how it simply isn't needed.

BHA soup kitchens, hostels... yep, I can see it all now.

yep - lets start with the bankers or the 1%. lets see how much they contribute. of course Phil Collins did a ditty about the homeless before clearing off to his tax haven.

[KimberleyChris]

As a church goer I would rather that people displayed a christian attitude than knew about the bible.

Of course there are some (well alot) of church goers who don't take a christian attitude.

My point is that this is a Christian country and that adds alot to the nominal standards of the country. Before replacing it I would like to think we are going to replace it for something better.

Please don't read any 'anti-christianism' into anything I write..(as though what I write actually means anything to anybody).

The price of being free to believe is respect for those who do not believe, and of course vice versa. Even though my brain cannot get itself round peoples' continued belief in gods, angels, spirits etc in the age of reason, it is (so they tell us) a free country.

If we are to continue to be a 'Christian' or rather 'Christianity-inspired' country, then please send forward your best, not your worst.

For example to my mind the Salvation Army represent the very best of Christianity. They help everybody and preach to nobody.

[NotAllThere]

A letter in the Times today points out that during the 20th century, much of the social work of the Church was taken over by government. Now that the government can't afford it, it's asking the church to pick up these things again. I wait with baited breath for the national secular society, or the British humanist association, to rush in to fill the void. Here would be a great opportunity to show how outmoded all that religion is; how it simply isn't needed.

BHA soup kitchens, hostels... yep, I can see it all now.

[BrilloPad]

It always amuses me how so many so-called Christians appear to know hardly anything about Christianity.

As a church goer I would rather that people displayed a christian attitude than knew about the bible.

Of course there are some (well alot) of church goers who don't take a christian attitude.

My point is that this is a Christian country and that adds alot to the nominal standards of the country. Before replacing it I would like to think we are going to replace it for something better.

[NotAllThere]

Why replace it with anything? State and religion should not mix.

Aha! Another yank in our midst.

Yep, let's all live according to the Bible:

"Happy and Blessed Are Those Who Dash Children Against Rocks"

How many of those who advocate religion have actually read the bible?

And how many of those who quote the bible have bothered to read it in context and understand the historical background?

The verse comes from Psalm 137. The context is:

7 Remember, LORD, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

Now, when Jerusalem was sacked, the Babylonians killed the Judean's children in the aforesaid manner. The Edomites thought this was great, and cheered it on. This was rather a betrayal, as the Edomites and Jews were related. In this Psalm the Jews are crying out for vengeance, saying that what the Edomites found so amusing is going to happen to them. As in "wait until it happens to you".

The fact that this psalm is in the bible does not mean that feelings of vengeance are validated, or that this is the way that you should react. It's certainly how many people would react though. And that's the point: the psalms reflect the full gamut of real human experience and emotion.