Reply to: Hand wringing apologetic Liberals 1 Britains AAA rating based on debt reduction 0

[xoggoth]

Don't doubt it, but that does not make the whole organisation fit to qualify as a charity.

[d000hg]

Good point, in the old days the church did just that but now the church is just in to money making like any other organisation.

Speaking as someone actually involved in "the church", I can tell you that a huge amount of charity work is done by "the church", both in terms of financial donations and, probably more importantly, volunteers giving up time.

[xoggoth]

Everyone simply MUST read Anselm.

All existing things exist through some one thing. Every existing thing, he begins, exists either through something or through nothing. But of course nothing exists through nothing, so every existing thing exists through something. There is, then, either some one thing through which all existing things exist, or there is more than one such thing. If there is more than one, either (i) they all exist through some one thing, or (ii) each of them exists through itself, or (iii) they exist through each other. (iii) makes no sense. If (ii) is true, then “there is surely some one power or nature of self-existing that they have in order to exist through themselves” ; in that case, “all things exist more truly through that one thing than through the several things that cannot exist without that one thing” So (ii) collapses into (i), and there is some one thing through which all things exist. That one thing, of course, exists through itself, and so it is greater than all the other things. It is therefore “best and greatest and supreme among all existing things”

Quite why god can exist through itself if nothing else can is not clear. Or why, if there is this something else through which all other things exist, it cannot be some impersonal force or form of existence rather than a sentient god.

[Paddy]

I never made such a distinction. I suggested that any church, Catholic, Anglican or Muslim can set up their own charitable organisation to help families who can not survive on 26K per year.

Good point, in the old days the church did just that but now the church is just in to money making like any other organisation. In my home City the C of E owns the majority of City centre properties including the High Street. High Street shops can not afford the excessive rents, properties that were originally for the benefit of the poor are now free residents for hangers of the church. I have never known one event for helping the poor but the church is always trying to raise money for themselves.

[NotAllThere]

Fail. For using 'reason' and 'religion' in the same sentence. Schoolboy error.

Fail. Go read Anselm.

[d000hg]

Hand wringing apologetic Liberals 1 Britains AAA rating based on debt reduction 0

It's good to see you maintain your unbiased stance on such matter DP. I think you would make a great reporter or news presenter...

"And in the headlines today... thieving scroungers celebrate that their benefits will not be cut"

[d000hg]

I never made such a distinction. I suggested that any church, Catholic, Anglican or Muslim can set up their own charitable organisation to help families who can not survive on 26K per year.

They do. There are hundreds of them. For instance my church supports a Foodbank, and many churches have projects like "soup kitchens", providing free furniture to those who can't afford it, etc. There are also several Christian charities which provide free advice on how to create and stick to a budget, how to avoid getting into debt, etc...

[The Spartan]

If they've contributed to the system in terms of paying Tax and NI then I have no problem with it but if they haven't it really grips my sh*t

[Arturo Bassick]

Why should we have to support someone who decides not to work and have a large family

Not all of them made that decision and as a civilized society I believe we have an obligation to those who have fallen on hard times.
The difficulty is in looking after the deserving without encouraging the feckless.

[The Spartan]

26K would be a maximum. It would have to be a very large family to qualify for that. Most would not get near it.
I can see a few issues arising, so the method may need changing, but the idea I think is a good one.

Why should we have to support someone who decides not to work and have a large family

[Arturo Bassick]

The government will get it passed in the house of commons, I still think 26k is too high

26K would be a maximum. It would have to be a very large family to qualify for that. Most would not get near it.
I can see a few issues arising, so the method may need changing, but the idea I think is a good one.

[The Spartan]

The government will get it passed in the house of commons, I still think 26k is too high

[TimberWolf]

They often do. I assumed you were assuming the catholic church, because that is often seen as loaded. Whereas the Anglican church isn't quite so well off.

The purpose of the house of lords is to provide scrutiny of government legislation, and propose changes. It's up to the government to accept them or not. It's seems reasonable that the various institutions that still make up the UK and are aware of social issues in a way that politicians might not be, should be able to point out to the government implications that they've perhaps not considered.

Of course, if you have a knee-jerk hysterical response to anything that is associated with religion, the establishment or the conservatives, reason will be irrelevant.

btw - there's no such thing as a Muslim church.

Fail. For using 'reason' and 'religion' in the same sentence. Schoolboy error.

[NotAllThere]

They often do. I assumed you were assuming the catholic church, because that is often seen as loaded. Whereas the Anglican church isn't quite so well off.

The purpose of the house of lords is to provide scrutiny of government legislation, and propose changes. It's up to the government to accept them or not. It's seems reasonable that the various institutions that still make up the UK and are aware of social issues in a way that politicians might not be, should be able to point out to the government implications that they've perhaps not considered.

Of course, if you have a knee-jerk hysterical response to anything that is associated with religion, the establishment or the conservatives, reason will be irrelevant.

btw - there's no such thing as a Muslim church.

[Arturo Bassick]

These Bishops are not Catholic bishops.

I never made such a distinction. I suggested that any church, Catholic, Anglican or Muslim can set up their own charitable organisation to help families who can not survive on 26K per year.