Reply to: Abolish-ICTs - epetition response

[northernladuk]

Bah..... .... I thought HAB was back to perform initiation on the newbies.

[TheFaQQer]

I hate resurrected threads

[DodgyAgent]

They are. It takes time.

Also they have lots of people saying what's going on, but nothing written down that would work as evidence. It only needs one documented case to blow the whole thing wide open, but if anybody has that evidence they're not putting it forward. So as far as Whitehall is concerned, there isn't a problem to resolve.

So the mesage seems to be, you want to keep the industry alive, stand up and be counted.

It would not be hard to conduct an investigation. I am sure that contractors/permies would give up names (anonymously of course) and that these people could then be interviewed or lulled into the promise of a full time job. They could then spill the beans.

[Diver]

Linky to Silicon.com

488 Thousand pounds - OK, not half a million, "Nearly Half a Million", I apologise.

I hate resurrected threads

[minestrone]

's funny. If I search for ICT Abuse I get the ictabuse website as number 1. Your house building protest site doesn't seem to register. Nor, come to that, does my blog or our local Theatre Group website.

So your point is? No, don't answer that...

Can someone tell spud for brains how pagerank works

[malvolio]

As I have previously said, google ranks my 'no house building on the local park' website higher than the 'PCG ictabuse' website.

If that is trying to get things done well...

's funny. If I search for ICT Abuse I get the ictabuse website as number 1. Your house building protest site doesn't seem to register. Nor, come to that, does my blog or our local Theatre Group website.

So your point is? No, don't answer that...

[minestrone]

Put it this way - they're a damned site less useless than you and me exchanging pointless arguments on here. At least they're trying to get things done.

As I have previously said, google ranks my 'no house building on the local park' website higher than the 'PCG ictabuse' website.

If that is trying to get things done well...

[malvolio]

So they come from a fine tradition of being useless

Put it this way - they're a damned site less useless than you and me exchanging pointless arguments on here. At least they're trying to get things done.

[HairyArsedBloke]

That was 9 years ago.

When there was still a faint hope of saving us all from ICT 'n all that.

Now, it is far too late.

[minestrone]

That was 9 years ago. The sainted Mr White treating it as his personal cash cow, having failed to do anything about IR35 and nearly bankrupting the organisation he founded. The PCG started again at that point, mostly through the efforts of people who put up the original £50 donations. What went on previously has no bearing on anything.

So they come from a fine tradition of being useless

[TimberWolf]

I take it the Susan Hughes mentioned above is the Susie Hughes of Shout99? Is there a CUK and PCG association too?

[Churchill]

Pathetic answer, I'm afraid.

That was 9 years ago. The sainted Mr White treating it as his personal cash cow, having failed to do anything about IR35 and nearly bankrupting the organisation he founded. The PCG started again at that point, mostly through the efforts of people who put up the original £50 donations. What went on previously has no bearing on anything.

If you're going to throw stones, at least learn the bloody history properly.

That was Andy White, it wasn't half a million, it wasn't for web services, it was 8 years ago and it's a different organisation now. So what's your point?

The Professional Contractors Group (PCG) has paid nearly £750,000 in fees to companies owned by some of its most senior figures.

The PCG's accounts for 2001 reveal that the PCG paid web design company Webtastic £488,888 in consultancy fees.

The main shareholders and directors of Webtastic are Andy White, who is also the founder of PCG, and Kevin Miller and Susan Hughes, both of whom are members of the executive team at PCG. The executive team is the collective name used by the PCG to describe the suppliers who provide the day-to-day services to keep the group up and running.

Kevin Miller is the finance director of PCG, and Susan Hughes is press officer for the group.

PCG also paid £169,167 to Susan Hughes Associates for PR work and other activities. Andy White owns 25 per cent of the shares in Susan Hughes Associates, and Kevin Miller 15 per cent.

The PCG accounting documents for the tax year 2001 ending 30 April state the following: "As last year Webtastic Ltd, a company of which A.F. White is the majority shareholder and director, provided the bulk of services in respect of the day-to-day running of the company... The amount of the services charged in the profit and loss account for the year amounted to £488,888.

"With effect from 1 September 2000, the company appointed Susan Hughes Associates to provide management and publicity services. A.F. White and K.G. Miller are directors and minority shareholders of this company. The amount of services charged in the year amounted to £169,167."

Susie Hughes, who is the spokeswoman for PCG in addition to being the director of Susan Hughes Associates, confirmed the figures and told silicon.com: "All of the contracts were awarded by the PCG board of directors in a fair manner. It's a standard business practice for any small to medium-sized business. Our accounts are in order and available in the public domain for anyone who wants to read them."

Up to April 2001, the income from PCG subscribers was £1.1m. PCG's accountant is Hopper Williams and Bell, based in Southampton.

Gerry McLaughin of contractors' reunion site NamesFacesPlaces.com helped silicon.com with this story.

Linky to Silicon.com

488 Thousand pounds - OK, not half a million, "Nearly Half a Million", I apologise.

[malvolio]

The last time I read their accounts £500k was paid out to some bloke for "web services"...

Don't think I'll bother again.

Pathetic answer, I'm afraid.

That was 9 years ago. The sainted Mr White treating it as his personal cash cow, having failed to do anything about IR35 and nearly bankrupting the organisation he founded. The PCG started again at that point, mostly through the efforts of people who put up the original £50 donations. What went on previously has no bearing on anything.

If you're going to throw stones, at least learn the bloody history properly.

[Churchill]

Gosh. ICT abuses have replaced Tier 2 abuses!!

Isn't that rather the point; we got one hole plugged so they force another one open. So we all start again. Which is why we're back at Square One again, NL have no interest in doing anything to stop the flow of people into the country or the movement of work offshore. With that level of apathy at the top, it's a bit hard to see how else to attack the problem unless someone can prove - that's "prove" in the legal sense - that the system is being abused.

As for the usual bollox about lining the PCG's coffers; 95% of their income is from membership subs, a chunk from earned interest and a tiny amount from close affiliates and suppliers. Go read the accounts if you don't believe me.

The last time I read their accounts £500k was paid out to some bloke for "web services"...

Don't think I'll bother again.

[malvolio]

Gosh. ICT abuses have replaced Tier 2 abuses!!

Isn't that rather the point; we got one hole plugged so they force another one open. So we all start again. Which is why we're back at Square One again, NL have no interest in doing anything to stop the flow of people into the country or the movement of work offshore. With that level of apathy at the top, it's a bit hard to see how else to attack the problem unless someone can prove - that's "prove" in the legal sense - that the system is being abused.

As for the usual bollox about lining the PCG's coffers; 95% of their income is from membership subs, a chunk from earned interest and a tiny amount from close affiliates and suppliers. Go read the accounts if you don't believe me.