Reply to: Prince2 foundation exam, any experience?

[Xenophon]

If you're up for the practitioner the best thing you can do is do the combined Foundation / Practitioner courses. You do the foundation course first and sit the exam, then straight into the practitioner course the next day so you dont foget everything you learned before. Best way to do it by far if you want the practitioner qualification.

Yep mine was combined course.

[malvolio]

So have I. Good, innit!

[SandyDown]

Sandy

Tha is exactly the problem. The average Joe is not interested in following processes because they all know how to do it better themselves using the unofficial Old Boys network.

There is a way to do it, but I'm not going to publish it here, because that's how I earn my income, although you can always drop me a private. But you have reinforced my point, that process design is easy, guaranteed process adherence is very hard. It is nothing to do with flowcharting and all to do with people management.

thanks malvolio I sent you a PM.

[malvolio]

Sandy

Tha is exactly the problem. The average Joe is not interested in following processes because they all know how to do it better themselves using the unofficial Old Boys network.

There is a way to do it, but I'm not going to publish it here, because that's how I earn my income, although you can always drop me a private. But you have reinforced my point, that process design is easy, guaranteed process adherence is very hard. It is nothing to do with flowcharting and all to do with people management.

[sappatz]

prince 2

the only person i have heard of being acquointed with a Prince (version 2 or whatever) in UK is camilla parker bowles

[SandyDown]

Cojak, I have been designing various processes recently a combination of various methodologies which are tailored to the programme, the processes has been reviewed by all members, not only management and agreed, however there are still people who are resisting following the process (some are actually the people who were shouting that they need these processes) they are trying every excuse to get an exemption from following any process, hence my question hmmm how do you manage these people so that you can make the process work?

Perhaps this is nothing to do with the topic here, but I'd like to hear from BB people especially managers how to manage people who are extremely resistance to any change??

[Mustang]

I totally agree with Malvolio and Cojak. I am a Prince 2 practitioner but only because I was fed up with being told "but you dont have Prince 2" when I applied for jobs despite having 14 years PM experience.....


Its so frustrating when you have to speak to people (agents and clients alike) who are recruiting PM's and all they do is focus on the skill set and not the results.

[cojak]

Hear, hear Malvolio.

I despair when people accuse me of not following ITIL 'because it doesn't look like that flowchart in the book'.

and I had a senior bod start his presentation with the old chestnut:

"Exceed the Customer's expectations".

I almost put my head in my hands and cried....

[malvolio]

Not if you want to do Govt work. Prince2 is the mandated project management methodology for govt projects and ITIL is fast becoming the service management standard as well.

It already is, actually.

Nevertheless, I have now worked on three major projects (and a couple of smaller ones) where the supposed ITIL expert got all his/her knowledge from the ITIL manuals and the study work they did for the Manager's Certificate. They were incapable of translating that into a gap analysis that would bring the client's existing processes, which were weak to non-existent, up to best practice standards.

More importantly, they couldn't draw a process that aligned to the clients working practices and was easier to follow than not following it (which is vital) and had no idea how to sell their client's staff on the new approach, which at the end of the day is the whole point of the exercise. Any prat can draw a VISIO flowchart, the trick is making it work in the real world.

So give me people that can do, not people who say they can or who want to wave qualifications at me to say they can.

[DaveB]

Agreed, but if you are up for the Practitioner (1 week residential usually) then do the following to (almost) ensure a pass:

1) Do the pre-reading. There isn't a lot, but it does make a difference at the start of the week when you actually commence the course. When I did it (2000) those that hadn't done the pre-reading were behind from the start and were struggling with the acronyms (SU, IP, DP, etc.).

2) Do the homework rather than get pi$$ed every night.

3) Pass the exam.

If you're up for the practitioner the best thing you can do is do the combined Foundation / Practitioner courses. You do the foundation course first and sit the exam, then straight into the practitioner course the next day so you dont foget everything you learned before. Best way to do it by far if you want the practitioner qualification.

[DaveB]

ITIL Managers got devalued a few years ago (partly because ITIL is not about paperwork anyway, it's about people). Prince is rapidly disappearing down the same path.

Not if you want to do Govt work. Prince2 is the mandated project management methodology for govt projects and ITIL is fast becoming the service management standard as well.

[Francko]

And as I said a while back, in most situations I won't give you a job because you have the certificate, I'll give you one if you can demonstrate you have done that sort of work in the real world.
..

Agreed Malvolio, but isn't it so surprising that so many people at the interview claim to have such a wide and extensive experience in right what the company is looking for?

ITIL and Prince2 are disappearing? What do you suggest then?

[malvolio]

And as I said a while back, in most situations I won't give you a job because you have the certificate, I'll give you one if you can demonstrate you have done that sort of work in the real world.

However, too many managers/Human Remains drones reject candidates on the basis of non-qualifications rather than experience, which is why (a) most major companies can't manage their way out of a paper bag and (b) too many good contractors struggle to get decent work.

ITIL Managers got devalued a few years ago (partly because ITIL is not about paperwork anyway, it's about people). Prince is rapidly disappearing down the same path. The Foundation exams are only good enough to teach you the terminology anyway.

[Xenophon]

Its a piece of Piss the Practitioner is a lot tougher though.

Agreed, but if you are up for the Practitioner (1 week residential usually) then do the following to (almost) ensure a pass:

1) Do the pre-reading. There isn't a lot, but it does make a difference at the start of the week when you actually commence the course. When I did it (2000) those that hadn't done the pre-reading were behind from the start and were struggling with the acronyms (SU, IP, DP, etc.).

2) Do the homework rather than get pi$$ed every night.

3) Pass the exam.

[vista]

Prince 2 Foundation

Its a piece of Piss the Practitioner is a lot tougher though.