Reply to: Social housing prioritisation and immigrants

[The Lone Gunman]

There's no such thing as a totally free market. Brown's belief that you could let banks regulate themselves is just further proof.
Even in a free market, countries do protect their own interests, and so they should within reason, especially with regard to their own people's jobs and thus standards of living.

That'l be why Thatcher made it so easy for foreigners to flood into Britain under her watch then!

[Cyberman]

It's the Thatcherite free market. You voted for it.

There's no such thing as a totally free market. Brown's belief that you could let banks regulate themselves is just further proof.
Even in a free market, countries do protect their own interests, and so they should within reason, especially with regard to their own people's jobs and thus standards of living.

[NotAllThere]

Do you not have any sympathy for the people who say “they come over ere’ and take our jobs”? Is that a xenophobic statement?

No, I don't. Because it's pig-ignorant.

It is a xenophobic statement as it shows animosity towards immigrants. As you said - the fault is not the people coming over, it's the government's - and the people who elected them.

It's also damn stupid that the same people say this as complain about the immigrants as all being social security scroungers.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

People who spoke up a few years ago, like myself, blah blah

It's the Thatcherite free market. You voted for it.

[Cyberman]

Do you not have any sympathy for the people who say “they come over ere’ and take our jobs”? Is that a xenophobic statement?

I agree that right wing will take advantage of the situation but where do you expect ‘ordinary hard working families™’ to turn when they are being ignored by whichever government happens to be in power?

People who spoke up a few years ago, like myself, were immediately called racist, which I strongly objected to, because in no way did I consider my views on protecting UK jobs and thus my own standard of living, racist. Now it appears that we are all becoming what we deemed a racist a few years ago.

If we are racist, then so are NZ and Japan that have very recently announced much stronger immigration controls to protect jobs for their indigenous population.

[gingerjedi]

Just how long are people expected to go on being reasonable?

Forever, it's the British way.

I expect some of the more established immigrants to start complaining before we do.

[xoggoth]

Just how long are people expected to go on being reasonable?

[gingerjedi]

It's the reaction to that realisation in form of hatred of immigrants, the circulation of half-truths about them, stereotyping etc. that is the xenophobia, not the realisation itself.

btw - the Swiss aren't as crowded, but are much more xenophobic than the British - well, the English anyway.

Anyway - populations in Europe are declining, and the UK is turning into a third world country, so I'm sure the population will settle down soon.

Do you not have any sympathy for the people who say “they come over ere’ and take our jobs”? Is that a xenophobic statement?

I must admit that I didn’t until it started affecting my ability to provide for my family in the country I was born, I don’t blame anyone for wanting a better life but surely it’s the governments responsibility to look after the indigenous population first which means not allowing people in ‘willy nilly’ and not allowing big business to ride roughshod over the rules (ICT’s) whether it be for housing or jobs.

I agree that right wing will take advantage of the situation but where do you expect ‘ordinary hard working families™’ to turn when they are being ignored by whichever government happens to be in power?

[NotAllThere]

There's nothing xenophobic about the realisation that the country is already overpopulated, the UK is the 3rd most densely populated country in Europe behind NL and Belgium...

It's the reaction to that realisation in form of hatred of immigrants, the circulation of half-truths about them, stereotyping etc. that is the xenophobia, not the realisation itself.

btw - the Swiss aren't as crowded, but are much more xenophobic than the British - well, the English anyway.

Anyway - populations in Europe are declining, and the UK is turning into a third world country, so I'm sure the population will settle down soon.

[gingerjedi]

Tax accountant and Conservative MP. Very used to presenting statistics in anyway he pleases.

Lies, damned lies, statistics, and statistics used by politicians. ( Equalities and Human Rights Commission are also of course being political ).

There is a perception that immigrants get preference over social housing. I've no trouble believing that perception is false - there's a nasty knee jerk xenophobic reaction to immigrants even in the good times. What could happen is that a higher percentage of immigrants on the list fall into the urgent need categories, and therefore the councils are obliged to house them first.

Hmm. When does an immigrant become an expat?

Anyway - rather than rely on what the newspapers think or say about a report, why not read it for yourself.

There's nothing xenophobic about the realisation that the country is already overpopulated, the UK is the 3rd most densely populated country in Europe behind NL and Belgium.

The entire infrastructure is creaking at the seams and successive governments have done sod all about it, the OPT says the UK should have an optimum population of 30m yet we are heading for a projected 77m by 2050 which means 2 more cities the size of London.

The big business that benefits from a seemingly endless supply of cheap labour don’t give a toss about the indigenous population, we’re all ultimately doomed™ I tell you.

[NotAllThere]

Tax accountant, I think.

Tax accountant and Conservative MP. Very used to presenting statistics in anyway he pleases.

Lies, damned lies, statistics, and statistics used by politicians. ( Equalities and Human Rights Commission are also of course being political ).

There is a perception that immigrants get preference over social housing. I've no trouble believing that perception is false - there's a nasty knee jerk xenophobic reaction to immigrants even in the good times. What could happen is that a higher percentage of immigrants on the list fall into the urgent need categories, and therefore the councils are obliged to house them first.

Hmm. When does an immigrant become an expat?

Anyway - rather than rely on what the newspapers think or say about a report, why not read it for yourself.

[vetran]

Not my experience admittedly second hand.

[GreenerGrass]

I agree the report completely misses the point, they shouldn't be eligible at all.

Good points made here, and in the comments:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ph...-is-it-a-myth/

I like this one

Asking the Equalities and Human Rights Commission to report on this is akin to asking the HSE if we are going too far on Heath & Safety, or the BBC if license fees should be cut.

I think this report has backfired, the people who will crow about it are those like the original poster, but most people can see it for the total missing-the-point bulltulip it is, plus they will just get angry that they are being deliberately fed disinformation to justify failed policies.
It isn't helping anyone. I wonder how much money was wasted on compiling it.

They also don't cover existing ex-council housing which was sold under right-to-buy then let to newer immigrants (thus not showing on the above statistics yet still straining housing and changing demographics in poor areas), I believe that's how Abu Hookhand Hamza started his government-subsidised Buy To Let portfolio.

The combination of privately owned ex-council, and housing association let properties allows Labour and left wing think tank statistics to disguise and grossly underestimate the effects of immigration on poor areas.

[lilelvis2000]

Tax accountant, I think.

Where does he get this "five years" from? The statistics go back to 2002 at least I thought? Unless I've read the wrong thing...


But still, why are economic migrants in social housing at all? aahhhh...forged wage slips, et al. its all about working the system my friends and not outright favoritism.

[HairyArsedBloke]

Oh I see. Mark Wadsworth is a politician. That explains it.

Tax accountant, I think.