Reply to: so what did Capita do?

[vetran]

most of the systems are pretty simple.

Online tax completion, fill in a PDF.

Tax credits - yes who thought up that mess.

Why do we need some monolith to build those? OK host them somewhere big but the applications are hardly rocket science.

[Liability]

On the subject of Crap Gem, I once interview a guy who had worked there. We advertised for a programmer but really our spec was for someone who had a couple of years exp but who we could still get for cheap to do the grunt work.

The chap had 2 year in Crap on a graduate program but was made redundant so we got him in for a talk. Transpired the guy knew nothing, square root of flip all, he admited that they never trained him in anything but still let him loose for 900 quid a day. Felt really sorry for him as he obviously had some brains but they had just wasted his training. I wanted to tell him just to drop the Crap from his CV and say he worked in a pub and apply for other graduate programs.

Ive seen a fair few from the Tier 1's and what has been common amongst them all is the approach to the employers frameworks when delivering and working on programmes. There is very little room for thinking for themselves and so when you throw them a curve ball they'll be good at watching it leave, go in the air and decend- but when its about to hit there faces they'll let it!

[minestrone]

that also sounds like Crap Gem -

On the subject of Crap Gem, I once interview a guy who had worked there. We advertised for a programmer but really our spec was for someone who had a couple of years exp but who we could still get for cheap to do the grunt work.

The chap had 2 year in Crap on a graduate program but was made redundant so we got him in for a talk. Transpired the guy knew nothing, square root of feck all, he admited that they never trained him in anything but still let him loose for 900 quid a day. Felt really sorry for him as he obviously had some brains but they had just wasted his training. I wanted to tell him just to drop the Crap from his CV and say he worked in a pub and apply for other graduate programs.

[BrilloPad]

The problem is in the basic system approach. HMG can ony think in terms of grand programmes but don't understand Programme Management so hand the whoe shebang off to a single contractor, who then assumes all risk management and regualtion. Clearly a stupid idea, which is why commercial comapnies (almost) never take do that.

Rather than design a monolithic monster that covers all the bases, they should focus on developing the capabilitiy model properly. Then you can sub-contract much smaller pieces to organisations that don't have to be able to manage a £20bn risk portfolio. As long as the interfaces are properly engineered and the QA is right, it doesn't matter who delivrs the small pieces. Also, of course, if one of those smaller suppliers cocks up, you will have several similar equally experienced and qualified organsiations in place to pick up the pieces.

And it's not too big a leap to extend that the smaller consultancy down another level, outsourcing some or all of the build/install/test cycle to SMEs and virtual consultancies.

Oh look, is that a Devon Old Spot at 15,000 feet....

What a stupid idea. How would the politicians get any kickbacks from that?

[malvolio]

The problem is in the basic system approach. HMG can ony think in terms of grand programmes but don't understand Programme Management so hand the whoe shebang off to a single contractor, who then assumes all risk management and regualtion. Clearly a stupid idea, which is why commercial comapnies (almost) never take do that.

Rather than design a monolithic monster that covers all the bases, they should focus on developing the capabilitiy model properly. Then you can sub-contract much smaller pieces to organisations that don't have to be able to manage a £20bn risk portfolio. As long as the interfaces are properly engineered and the QA is right, it doesn't matter who delivrs the small pieces. Also, of course, if one of those smaller suppliers cocks up, you will have several similar equally experienced and qualified organsiations in place to pick up the pieces.

And it's not too big a leap to extend that the smaller consultancy down another level, outsourcing some or all of the build/install/test cycle to SMEs and virtual consultancies.

Oh look, is that a Devon Old Spot at 15,000 feet....

[Liability]

You missed the silent 'r'. Crapita.

I worked for subsidiary of Crapita. They considered mediocrity something to aspire to.

At an appraisal, the boss told me to remember who pays my mortgage. Apparently, despite the fact that I was solving 80% of all issues coming into to our team of four (the others were solving the easy 20%), I wasn't a team player, because I arrived at 9am, and left at 5pm, while they were working extra hours for no extra pay. I resigned at that point, and went contracting.

I suppose they could have improved since then.

that also sounds like Crap Gem -

Never have understood this long working day tulipe even if you do majority of the work. Tossers

[OwlHoot]

.. I am sure if you are a Labor politician making these decisions the choice is all to clear with the offer of a job after politics.

WHS

Politician or senior civil servant

[pmeswani]

I'd pick on EDS <spit> first.

Can you please stop spitting on my shoe?

[threaded]

We have complained for years about how crap (and allegedly corrupt) the big consultancies are, but when the probable future PM says he wants to curtail using them, there's those on here who knock him. Why is that?

To quote OwlHoot:

The wipers work but there's no windscreen.

[Doggy Styles]

We have complained for years about how crap (and allegedly corrupt) the big consultancies are, but when the probable future PM says he wants to curtail using them, there's those on here who knock him. Why is that?

[DSW]

So basically they were doing the same as what i suspect the other big names do, but they got caught and because they hadnt given anything (or enough) to the tories they kicked up a fuss (note I'm not saying that they were right in what they were doing, just that the system seems a little crooked)

Surely this is more about the integrity of politicians as much as anything else as they seem to have some pretty big conflicts of interests? Oh well at least they are not self regulated or anything...

[RichardCranium]

I'd pick on EDS <spit> first.

[minestrone]

If I may use the NHS as an example, it was going along kind of OK with a bottom up approach to software, they should have made a standards group with all the suppliers and purchasers and came up with some interoperable specs and that would have been fine.

Why labour had to come along and ditch that for a total top down approach involving places like capita with a past record of crapness is beyond me. I am sure of you are a Labor politician making these decisions the choice is all to clear with the offer of a job after politics.

[xoggoth]

These outfits might be voluntary groups or small firms, but both would typically be “inventive and doing exciting things,” Mr Cameron said in a speech in London

That would be intersting. In my experience most voluntary groups are largely run and staffed by a combination of the elderly and the mentally ill.

[xoggoth]

It is almost a rule that the larger the company the less efficient they are but they stay in business by being the only ones large enought to take on, finance and manage these huge projects.

How exactly would a bunch of small companies cooperate to deliver a multi billion pound project? The resuts would probably be even worse. Not sure Cameron is my idea of a business expert.

Maybe a better solution would be to have more expertise on the government side to properly specify it actually needs, to monitor what is done and to enforce the contract properly.