Client Contact Primer

[The Lone Gunman]

I try not to use agents. I'm not using one at the moment.

Then you should have no problems with an IR35 investigation as there is only one contract and no matter what company policy may be, they have signed it. As long as you can show your practice matches the contract then it should not matter what HR say, especialy if you did not come in through HR.
For them to deny the contract is for them to admit to a fraud.
It is usualy the agent/contractor contract that causes all the issues.

[Moscow Mule]

It will probably turn out that it is the agent you should be sueing.
In many of these cases that I have read the contractor has a contract stating their terms, but it is between them and the agent. The agent will tell you that it is back to back with the client agent contract. When these cases come to court it turns out the client would never have agreed to the terms in the contractors contract.
Who do you think is guilty?

I have often asked that my contract contains a clause stating that it does not conflict with the client/agent contract and that if it does my contract is correct. If an agent refuses I assume that there is something dodgy going on and walk away.
Not sure it would protect me in an investigation, but it does show I have tried to make sure my terms are correct.

I try not to use agents. I'm not using one at the moment.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well, in which case I'd be forced to sue the engaging client for any fines incurred.

It will probably turn out that it is the agent you should be sueing.
In many of these cases that I have read the contractor has a contract stating their terms, but it is between them and the agent. The agent will tell you that it is back to back with the client agent contract. When these cases come to court it turns out the client would never have agreed to the terms in the contractors contract.
Who do you think is guilty?

I have often asked that my contract contains a clause stating that it does not conflict with the client/agent contract and that if it does my contract is correct. If an agent refuses I assume that there is something dodgy going on and walk away.
Not sure it would protect me in an investigation, but it does show I have tried to make sure my terms are correct.

[Moscow Mule]

That wouldn't necessarily help - if Hector goes to HR and asks, for example, "Would you allow substitution" and HR say "No, that's against company policy" then you're probably stuffed.

The fact that HR had never heard of you wouldn't make much difference - you'd still have a battle on your hands, and the person you actually dealt with might not be comfortable standing up in public and stating that they agreed contracts which directly contravened their employer's policies.

Well, in which case I'd be forced to sue the engaging client for any fines incurred.

[NickFitz]

Got your cynical pants on today then...

And FWIW, HR haven't got a clue I'm even on-site. Benefits of going direct to the commercial ops team and negotiating contracts with them.

That wouldn't necessarily help - if Hector goes to HR and asks, for example, "Would you allow substitution" and HR say "No, that's against company policy" then you're probably stuffed.

The fact that HR had never heard of you wouldn't make much difference - you'd still have a battle on your hands, and the person you actually dealt with might not be comfortable standing up in public and stating that they agreed contracts which directly contravened their employer's policies.

[The Lone Gunman]

That is a realy good idea, but......... there is always a but isn't there.....
There is no incentive for clients or agents to support us. We are powerless. If we remove our services they will find someone else and we end up without work.
The revenue has teeth and when they turn up at the clients doorstep the client is inclined to talk to them. You always feel like you are guilty of something even if you are under no threat yourself and it is easier to point the dogs at someone else.

Why there are no consequences for clients and agents escapes me. Labour laws were introduced in this country to protect the work force from exploitation. They were introduced to give workers rights to holidays, pensions and sick pay.
When the client says they were using us as permatemps they are clearly stating that they have circumvented those laws.
Sure we are well compensated for that, but once we have paid the IR35 bill that compensation is much reduced.

[Moscow Mule]

Not quite there, but a good starter for ten perhaps...

http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...124&Itemid=217

Good one.

[malvolio]

In light of a few decisions recently where end clients' comments to the Special Commissioners have not helped some folks cases, is there a handy (one page? available on the internet?) document detailing:

IR35 issues
reasons for working practices
anything else they need to know
etc etc

Maybe in a Q&A format?

Not quite there, but a good starter for ten perhaps...

http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...124&Itemid=217

[Epiphone]

No, just got my realistic pants on. If Hector knocks on your clients door asking questions their first priority is to help themselves. Easiest thing is to get rid of IR35 but that's not going to happen. Unless the Tories grow some balls anyway.

[Moscow Mule]

Your end client couldn't give a stuff about IR35 and chances are Hector will talk to some HR slag who doesn't know her arse from her elbow (and has never heard of you let alone met you in the 3 years since you finished the gig).

So, no, to answer your question.

Got your cynical pants on today then...

And FWIW, HR haven't got a clue I'm even on-site. Benefits of going direct to the commercial ops team and negotiating contracts with them.

[Epiphone]

Your end client couldn't give a stuff about IR35 and chances are Hector will talk to some HR slag who doesn't know her arse from her elbow (and has never heard of you let alone met you in the 3 years since you finished the gig).

So, no, to answer your question.

[Moscow Mule]

In light of a few decisions recently where end clients' comments to the Special Commissioners have not helped some folks cases, is there a handy (one page? available on the internet?) document detailing:

IR35 issues
reasons for working practices
anything else they need to know
etc etc

Maybe in a Q&A format?