Reply to: Extension or New Contract?

[PAH]

So, we stop buying their cheap food and these women now get no money. Of course they're free to get another job - starving to death or prostitution are 2 possibilities.

Yeah exploitation can always be justified if you want it to.

I like how there's all the fuss about the olympic participants voicing their concerns in China. Yeah we're really worried about the abuse of rights over there, but that doesn't mean we'll do anything about it as long as they keep producing the goods cheaply.

Africa would be a superpower by now if they'd kept the slavery.

[PerlOfWisdom]

Won't stop you from buying your food and tat that's produced in these countries where cheap labour is exploited though will it.

Slave labour by proxy. That's alright then, we can pretend to be ignorant. Pass me the Argos catalogue I need a new plastic piece of junk to fill a corner of a cupboard I rarely ever open.

So, we stop buying their cheap food and these women now get no money. Of course they're free to get another job - starving to death or prostitution are 2 possibilities.

[vetran]

Falls at the first fence :


Many business deals are concluded on the basis that the parties have known each other for many years and trust each other to carry out their responsibilities to each other fairly and honestly.

......

One of the problems often encountered more prevalently with verbal agreements is that different participants in the negotiations may have different views of what was and what was not agreed, and disputes often become a battle of contradictory recollections with varying evidence in support.

Which is going to win the one man band contractor being stiffed or the Agent that failed to provide reasonable notice as a negotiating tactic?

I'd say the custom in these situations is to have a written contract underpinning the relationship therefore a verbal won't count.

If they are unlikely to pay if the contract isn't signed then no contract, how many agents / companies pay with no signed contract issued?

AIUI any contract requires agreement + requirement to pay(consideration), if the agent isn't going to pay without a written contract then a verbal one isn't a contract. - IMHO of course.

If they have issued a written renewal and you haven't responded no in a reasonable time say 7 days or provide work that will fall within it then it seems reasonable to believe you have accepted it. Which I assume is why agents leave the contract until the day your contract is due to expire.

Maybe the thing to do is when provided with a late night renewal is to respond by fax stating you will be having the contract reviewed by your advisors and agree to provide 7 days under the current agreement while its reviewed?

Also depends what you are asked :

Are you interested in a renewal? You answer yes. = no contract you just want to look at the possibility.

Will you renew at the current rate and conditions - You answer yes. = contract.

Obviously a very grey area and agents will have a different view.

IANAL.

[PAH]

Yes, but they are not spending $3 for a loaf of bread are there. A loaf is likely to cost about $0.10 or less.

If they're working the fields they'd be making their own bread for nothing.

Money is practically useless for them, everything they need is either self-provided or donated by various charities. Think of it as The Good Life abroad.

[Sockpuppet]

Just watched a heart breaking story about women in the 3rd world having to work all day in the fields - in the heat or the snow, for a total of $3.5 a day !!

Yes, but they are not spending $3 for a loaf of bread are there. A loaf is likely to cost about $0.10 or less.

[cojak]

as usual the agency puts in contract a different rate than the one agreed (reduced by £50 a day)

typical of CP types - just tell them 'no' and walk away you're not desperate and they can see commission walking out of the door.

They'll give you your original rate...

[PAH]

Just watched a heart breaking story about women in the 3rd world having to work all day in the fields - in the heat or the snow, for a total of $3.5 a day !!


All have a large families to support too

Won't stop you from buying your food and tat that's produced in these countries where cheap labour is exploited though will it.

Slave labour by proxy. That's alright then, we can pretend to be ignorant. Pass me the Argos catalogue I need a new plastic piece of junk to fill a corner of a cupboard I rarely ever open.

[SandyDown]

That's not strictly true. See link

Accepted subject to seeing the written contract, if I haven't seen the written contract and there is a condition I didn't like - then I'd negotiate, btw I did tell them I'd need to get my contract reviewed.

[OwlHoot]

Verbal is no contract.

That's not strictly true. See link

[SandyDown]

Just watched a heart breaking story about women in the 3rd world having to work all day in the fields - in the heat or the snow, for a total of $3.5 a day !!


All have a large families to support too

[SandyDown]

Thanks Veteran, just did a search of all my emails sent back and forth to the agent, I have one that I asked her to confirm interview details, job specs, locations and rate..... unfortunately the agent replied confirming everything apart from the rate, I didn't notice on the day because I was very busy, but as we spoke verbally about it, an I know I haven't applied for anything that is advertised below my rate (am not desperate yet, so didn't see the need to apply for a lower rate), I didn't worry too much... anyway I told them I wont accept the contract at that rate... as for my present contract, I believe the rest of the contractors are going to reject this sign on/off log as well, so think the agency will sort it out for us.... didn't really rock the boat with the client at all.

Oh my PM no longer calls me lovie, I think he thinks am a bitch now

He is really a useless old man, he is about 63 or 64 and I have to explain things to him several times before he gets it, sometimes after I speak with him I send him a written explanation, he was a second hand car salesman before getting into IT PM work , his wife owns a pub, and 90% of the time he is on the phone managing the pub business, the rest of the time doing what second hand car salesman do, just being slimy and try to lick the arse off the permies...

Unfortunately as I said the structure all changed, and the team doesn’t have proper leadership any longer, they just put all contractors together, there is no one to talk to or raise issues/risks to, and the PM as I said is useless, never saw him utter a word in any of the meetings held…. However, who gives a $hit, if they pay me Ok then I’ll stick it.

[vetran]

You haven't rocked the boat where you are have you?

Tell the new agent that there seems to be a mistake on the new contract and ask for the rate to be corrected. Only ask for the rate negotiated, you are honest Sandy the good contractor. It was on offer, if he cut himself a bigger slice of the pie then he needs to go on a diet, if its his mistake he can correct it.

Get the contract IR35 cleared etc. get some nice concessions. But most of all tell him you have a renewal in your hand, better the devil you know etc. Tell him he has 48 hours to sort it. He will blink first, the client wants you.

Delay signing the paperwork for the current contract, forget etc. Verbal is no contract.

See if new one comes up trumps. If it does then up your rate, change your conditions and mention the luvvy names preferably with HR in the room saying its unnerving you. Your PM will have a new respect for women inside the hour, you will be known as Maam for the rest of your contract.


Whichever comes up best take it and apologise to the other. They wouldn't think twice about stitching you.

If its the new client phone them and apologise, you really don't want to upset your current client etc, you might have but their agent messed you about with the rate and you have now comitted to your current client
but would love to work with them in future.

[SandyDown]

My existing contract team structure has changed, now a new idiot programme manger is asking all contractors (5 of us) to sign time in and time out log, I rejected that and told them no can do... I am a consultant and can't sign time in / time out (IR35 thingy) emailed my agent and told them am not going to sign this log becasue its a change in terms. Called the new agency and asked them to send me a contract in writing.

The new contract arrived around 5 pm, am sooooo pi$$ed off, originally when agreeing roles to go for I spoke with one agent, but she went on holiday and someone else took over, everything was cool, client phoned me a couple of times and am getting so excited about the role... as usual the agency puts in contract a different rate than the one agreed (reduced by £50 a day) am sooo iffing pi$$ed off, I suppose I shouldn't have appeared so excited and keen....

I may find myself with no contract !!

[BlasterBates]

Was supposed to complete this contract end of Feb, so applied for other contracts… a week ago I am told the client has renewed for another 2 months, I said fine… then today I get a call feedback from interview I did, and got an offer of 6 months…
6 months are better than 2 months right? Only I was told most likely I’d get renewed after the 2 months but there is no guarantees…. I obviously prefer the 6 months, but I know there are no guarantees in any post….

Does my verbal acceptance of the extension hold me to this contract? I still haven’t received any written confirmation; in fact the agency hasn’t received any paperwork at all!!

So am thinking of telling my present agency am not renewing, hence will end the contract as agreed end of Feb, but worried they are going to say as I accepted the extension, I need to work my 4 weeks notice.... Would love to invoke my substitution clause, but don't know anyone with my high quality rare skills <---- sarcastic comment btw

I would ask for 6 months from your current employer.

How's the weather in England?

[Denny]

Sandy works with Churchill?

(Get the tea on, love)

She can't be. Otherwise, she would have bolted long ago.