Reply to: Indian Development Teams

[TimberWolf]

Brillo, I think that's the funniest thing you've ever said

I thought this was better, it had me laughing anyway:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/443906-post3.html

[beaker]

most people only care if their copy of heat magazine is delivered on time...

Brillo, I think that's the funniest thing you've ever said

[BrilloPad]

In India!

Legally they cannot import Indian nationals to replace or flood the market. Same with any other country whose citizens don't have a right to work here without a permit. That is what has been happening over the last 10 years.

It has resulted in the average skilled wage rising slower than previously, many IT salaries are only now returning to 1998 levels effectively a pay cut. Small wonder fewer people are taking IT as a degree course.

This is part of Gordon's miracle, however its obvious sooner or later the vast majority of services will be performed in India & China (until of course they become too expensive) not sure what the British economy will be based on then.

Gordon will have moved on by then - why should he care? Alas most people only care if their copy of heat magazine is delivered on time...

[vetran]

Nothing wrong with Indian companies employing Indian labour

In India!

Legally they cannot import Indian nationals to replace or flood the market. Same with any other country whose citizens don't have a right to work here without a permit. That is what has been happening over the last 10 years.

It has resulted in the average skilled wage rising slower than previously, many IT salaries are only now returning to 1998 levels effectively a pay cut. Small wonder fewer people are taking IT as a degree course.

This is part of Gordon's miracle, however its obvious sooner or later the vast majority of services will be performed in India & China (until of course they become too expensive) not sure what the British economy will be based on then.

[Charles Foster Kane]

I thought Dilbert IS reality?

Hyper parodial take on the everyday annoyances of business and life I would say. If your life is JUST like Dilbert, be afraid, be very afraid.

[DodgyAgent]

Let me guess - today is Friday, which is typical day to tell people they are fired, so I reckon DA was told that his dodgy services outsourced to Mumbai

Outsourcing recruitment to India is catching on, I have this week set up an Indian office in Delhi

[AtW]

Let me guess - today is Friday, which is typical day to tell people they are fired, so I reckon DA was told that his dodgy services outsourced to Mumbai

[DodgyAgent]

You are talking about British companies replacing permanent UK staff with Indian staff within UK companies to supply the role the permanent staff did. i.e. Support services, in house development. With that I agree with your view.

I am talking about an Indian company building and selling products. It owns the IP of the product. The British company is purchasing the product which it then customizes for the client.

I think we are getting closer to agreeing , but if the product is being developed here then it should be using EU labour.

[M_B]

I am sure that TATA or Wipro have all the skills they need "in house" to replace the entire population of IT contractors in the UK at £10 a day.

You dont really understand the subtleties of this do you?

I may be being over simplistic (bear with me I am an agent) but the point I am making is that if a piece of work is being contracted offshore then that is fine, apart from the need to have some Indians come to the UK to communicate with users and learn the systems, the work is truly offshore.

Nearshoring/onshoring is a term used to disguise the shipment of cheap labour used to replace more expensive EU indiginous workers. It may be that the Indian company has got all the expertise in christendom, but that is no excuse to exploit loopholes in the immigration law to bring cheapies here. Either the work is offshored with some dispensation for workers to move between companies or it is a scam to bring cheap labour to the UK

You are talking about British companies replacing permanent UK staff with Indian staff within UK companies to supply the role the permanent staff did. i.e. Support services, in house development. With that I agree with your view.

I am talking about an Indian company building and selling products. It owns the IP of the product. The British company is purchasing the product which it then customizes for the client.

[M_B]

Did the project come in on time and on budget?

Mostly yes. I say mostly as there are a number of companies involved in the project. The Indian company satisfied its time requirements and budgets.

Did the whole process have to be micromanaged to make it work?

Some elements yes, some no. The biggest difficulty was when development of certain modules were split between offshore and onshore. Modules developed completely on one side were more succesful. Admittedly yes - the offshore model was difficult at first because of communication issues - but credit to them, they addressed it and resolved it.

[AtW]

Nearshoring/onshoring is a term used to disguise the shipment of cheap labour used to replace more expensive EU indiginous workers. It may be that the Indian company has got all the expertise in christendom, but that is no excuse to exploit loopholes in the immigration law to bring cheapies here. Either the work is offshored with some dispensation for workers to move between companies or it is a scam to bring cheap labour to the UK

Yep: those who immigrate to work here should be subject to the same taxes and costs like everyone else, this will prevent them from doing labour for 1/10th the cost because they don't actually live here.

[DodgyAgent]

Thats overly simplistic. There are many reasons why some of the work cannot be done offshore or that its better to do it onshore including it being a stipulation of the client.

When the company has the experience and skills in house, why on earth should it be forced to abandon that and hire locally ?

I am sure that TATA or Wipro have all the skills they need "in house" to replace the entire population of IT contractors in the UK at £10 a day.

You dont really understand the subtleties of this do you?

I may be being over simplistic (bear with me I am an agent) but the point I am making is that if a piece of work is being contracted offshore then that is fine, apart from the need to have some Indians come to the UK to communicate with users and learn the systems, the work is truly offshore.

Nearshoring/onshoring is a term used to disguise the shipment of cheap labour used to replace more expensive EU indiginous workers. It may be that the Indian company has got all the expertise in christendom, but that is no excuse to exploit loopholes in the immigration law to bring cheapies here. Either the work is offshored with some dispensation for workers to move between companies or it is a scam to bring cheap labour to the UK

[oracleslave]

Is that ACTUALLY your real life, or are you blurring reality with Dilbert?

Good to see you back CFK. Am relieved you haven't written yourself and a leased porsche off by wrapping it round a tree.

[Ardesco]

Very much so - Its live and the client has requested yet more enhancements. Infact they have been so succesful that they are winning more and more contracts both here and abroad. From my point of view its brilliant because I can forsee me being contracted with them for years and years to come not just on this project but others too.

Yes there are nightmare projects out there, but then they aren't exclusive to Indian companies. The trouble many are finding is that the model is new and many companies simply don't have the experience to make it work. This particular company however is doing it mostly right.

So which company is it?

Did the project come in on time and on budget?

Did the whole process have to be micromanaged to make it work?

[AtW]

Yes there are nightmare projects out there, but then they aren't exclusive to Indian companies.

Problem are not exclusive to Indian companies, that's for sure - however you can't yell on them, you can't even see them properly to have any weight in threat of getting people fired, and don't have any control at all whether people who work with you today won't be changed tomorrow.