Reply to: England’s rivers at risk as Michael Gove rips up rules on new housing

[SueEllen]

In other news the RSPB is in trouble for calling certain government ministers liars. I can't think why the RSPB did that. How much does it cost to join?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66666435

[malvolio]

I am not adverse to that... in the short term. Sometimes one has to put up with extremes to fully understand to true level of incompetence that wishful thinking and pixie dust can unleash upon the world.

How's that criminal investigation coming along? Have they found out why the party of government needed a camper van? Or a £100,000 loan from the CEO? Or if seats can be bought for cash donations?

The whiff of impropriety hangs about the SNP like a dog tulip stuck between the treads of a heavy boot.

Do you not feel just a little betrayed?

It's the natural corollary of the electorate voting for a leader with a "nice" TV presence who promises them what they want to hear. Exactly the same thing happened when we got the coalition cock-up; Clegg did a bravura TV performance (in a debate he had no real reason to be in) and collected a load of votes. Like St Nicola, he then reneged on everything h had promised to deliver.

But since 95% of the country has zero interest in their government, it's something we will simply have to tolerate.

[wattaj]

Have you actually seen the results of the FPTP part of the last scottish (sic) election ? If it wasn't for PR, there would be next to no opposition MSPs.

I am not adverse to that... in the short term. Sometimes one has to put up with extremes to fully understand to true level of incompetence that wishful thinking and pixie dust can unleash upon the world.

How's that criminal investigation coming along? Have they found out why the party of government needed a camper van? Or a £100,000 loan from the CEO? Or if seats can be bought for cash donations?

The whiff of impropriety hangs about the SNP like a dog tulip stuck between the treads of a heavy boot.

Do you not feel just a little betrayed?

[TestMangler]

Hmm, living under the thumb of a catastrophic SNP/Green alliance as I do, I would caution that one should be wary such electoral utopias.

Have you actually seen the results of the FPTP part of the last scottish election ? If it wasn't for PR, there would be next to no opposition MSPs.

[SueEllen]

PR was always slated as problematic due to minority government, alliances, etc. yest the LibCon coalition was effective as a government. I hated their politics but they provided effective, grown up government.
I would have that over the current shambles every day.

Zombie governments don't last forever.

[Lance]

Hmm, living under the thumb of a catastrophic SNP/Green alliance as I do, I would caution that one should be wary such electoral utopias.

utopias are just utopias.
- Rarely live up to expectations
- Just not done properly ( see communism, brexit, etc.)

PR was always slated as problematic due to minority government, alliances, etc. yest the LibCon coalition was effective as a government. I hated their politics but they provided effective, grown up government.
I would have that over the current shambles every day.

[Gibbon]

If a majority government cannot pass legislation then the argument for FTPT is dead.
Shame the Libdems ****ed up their chance for PR.

I live in hope of Labour supporting PR in the near future. The unions already do.

Hmmm, have a look at Israel and see how PR works when a significant hardcore minority hold sway. Think now of how Farage would play to this, or momentum; because bet your bottom dollar the lib dems would disappear once a minority of people think a far right/left may have some real influence.

[wattaj]

If a majority government cannot pass legislation then the argument for FTPT is dead.
Shame the Libdems ****ed up their chance for PR.

I live in hope of Labour supporting PR in the near future. The unions already do.

Hmm, living under the thumb of a catastrophic SNP/Green alliance as I do, I would caution that one should be wary such electoral utopias.

[Lance]

Yes but that equates to 40 seats, given quite a few were a Corbyn gift (red wall) and the massive swings to the libs in the by-elections they have every right to back off a little.

On this issue I would like to see Lab get in and use the space in the Con seats to get stuff going in those areas too; there's loads of building in Wakefield, North East Leeds, West Hull & West Preston that I personally know of.

If a majority government cannot pass legislation then the argument for FTPT is dead.
Shame the Libdems ****ed up their chance for PR.

I live in hope of Labour supporting PR in the near future. The unions already do.

[Gibbon]

this is bollocks though.
It won't change anything cos the lack of new builds isn't caused by environmental regulation. It's planning and nimbys. Neither of which are addressed here.

Gove had a plan for planning. But bottled it due to the government being weak despite an 80 seat majority

Yes but that equates to 40 seats, given quite a few were a Corbyn gift (red wall) and the massive swings to the libs in the by-elections they have every right to back off a little.

On this issue I would like to see Lab get in and use the space in the Con seats to get stuff going in those areas too; there's loads of building in Wakefield, North East Leeds, West Hull & West Preston that I personally know of.

[Lance]

this is bollocks though.
It won't change anything cos the lack of new builds isn't caused by environmental regulation. It's planning and nimbys. Neither of which are addressed here.

Gove had a plan for planning. But bottled it due to the government being weak despite an 80 seat majority

[SueEllen]

[wattaj]

Have you been living under a rock the past 5-10yrs whilst water companies pumped endless amount of tulipe into pretty much every river? 100% negligence and greed.

Water companies have been doing this since time immemorial; it is the level of reporting that has changed. Scotland, for example, is far behind England in such matters, hence the Scottish Government likes to trumpet how few discharges we have up here... though our rivers and seas are as bad.

[ladymuck]

So do farms (especially chicken farms, the biggest releaser of phosphates into the ecosystems). What is not being reported is that (a) these levels are already being well monitored, and (b) much money is being spent by HMG to improve the capacity of the treatment plants to address rising levels of pollution and (c) the specific case of house building is down to yet another highly specific EU ruling which got added to our statute book on top of what was already in place. All that's happening is that bit is being taken out again.

That extra pollution is from a growing population in all probability anyway rather than negligence.

Given this is the Grauniad reporting, its ignoring the whole picture in favour of its usual anti-government stance is not surprising.

[dsc]

That extra pollution is from a growing population in all probability anyway rather than negligence.

Have you been living under a rock the past 5-10yrs whilst water companies pumped endless amount of tulipe into pretty much every river? 100% negligence and greed.