Reply to: WFH? Your fault..

[Gibbon]

Isn't male pee suppose to deter foxes?

Only if you can pee higher than the fox, some of the squatters on here would struggle!

[DoctorStrangelove]

Isn't male pee suppose to deter foxes?

It's supposed to deter American mildew off gooseberry bushes too.

Be careful of the thorns. .

[SueEllen]

The sink then, or learn to aim. Or just wee in the garden

Isn't male pee suppose to deter foxes?

[d000hg]

having to scrub the bath of your wee before I use it would probably negate any savings

The sink then, or learn to aim. Or just wee in the garden

[vetran]

One may also practice the "no flush for #1" policy. Or if you are collecting grey water, wee in the bath so it gets stored for the garden

Sadly the ladies complain if you " if its yellow, let it mellow", I do tend to use the mop bucket water to flush sometimes when cleaning.

I'm not Trump so golden baths are not my idea of fun having to scrub the bath of your wee before I use it would probably negate any savings

[vetran]

I actually used grey water last year when it was 40c to water some of my ornamentals. (Mainly as an experiment since within a half mile radius there were plenty of floods due to burst pipes and I'm not on a water meter.)

It's quite easy to work out whether to use the water or throw it away regardless of whether you use commercial products or more traditional cleaners e.g. white vinegar.


It's only worthwhile doing that if your aim is to actively be more environmentally friendly and show others what works, as the return on investment is probably low.

As you say grey water can be used for none edibles if you are careful and use environmentally friendly chemicals. Most people aren't. Using grey water to wash the car is probably a bad idea.

Actually if your warm up is a minute and you don't use a reducer it will expel about 7-15 litres per minute and up to 32 litres via shower pump, if you divert the hot water only via a valve then you could save between 15 - 30 litres of water per shower. My en-suite is on the other side of the house so takes about a minute to heat up. Same for washing up water. with 5 people in the house that is conservatively 75 litres of clean water a day you can use for edibles. That is a fairly significant amount especially in a drought. It will also make it faster to vent the hot water pipe, if you use 15mm it will pass about 36 litres without a pump in a minute, if you use 22mm the venting will take 30 seconds to move 36 litres.

As Thames charges 138.18p for 1000 Litres fresh water and 89.63 for waste water this works out as 0.22p for each litre saved so 4.1-8.2p a shower about 20-40p a day for 5 people assuming £200-300 installed in a family bathroom that is ROI < 12/24 months. Again better than solar, that of course assumes you use clean water for the garden, jet washing or other things anyway. If its for the garden no waste water will go back a real bonus for our overloaded sewers

Of course if you are my wife or children then why not just turn the tap or shower on to warm up then wander off for 10 minutes. So loads of hot water used as well.

Water recirculating pumps are common in the US they pump the cold water in the hot pipe back into the water tank. This would probably not be acceptable with stricter UK regulations but outside to a water butt means at least this doesn't go straight down the drain.

Navy showers can save 95% of water so digital showers with motion sensors that can see when you aren't under the flow and lower the water pressure as required simulating some of the benefits of navy showers without the faff.

[d000hg]

One may also practice the "no flush for #1" policy. Or if you are collecting grey water, wee in the bath so it gets stored for the garden

[SueEllen]

You could use grey water to water trees and shrubs but not food normally, also imagine what bleach will do to your lawn (most bathroom cleaners use some form of it).

I actually used grey water last year when it was 40c to water some of my ornamentals. (Mainly as an experiment since within a half mile radius there were plenty of floods due to burst pipes and I'm not on a water meter.)

It's quite easy to work out whether to use the water or throw it away regardless of whether you use commercial products or more traditional cleaners e.g. white vinegar.

Good point there about shower & sink warm up water, you could have a button that starts warm up and redirects the water before it gets to the shower to a near potable store outside via a 15mm redirect pipe from the hot water so it never goes near a drain and no cold water is wasted, that would be perfect for toilet flushing or watering. My plan is to do that in the en-suite and bathroom if I can.

It's only worthwhile doing that if your aim is to actively be more environmentally friendly and show others what works, as the return on investment is probably low.

[vetran]

Bare in mind some people grow edibles. (I do but my garden isn't full of them.)

Obviously solved by having two outside taps - one grey and one fresh water.

rain water is not grey water. Both are non potable i.e. you are not advised to drink either.

Rain water is collected from the sky via roofs (one of the reasons you shouldn't drink it if you look at the muck on most roofs).

Grey water is collected from showers, baths , washing machines , dishwashers and bathroom sinks it may well contain cleaning chemicals or human waste / cells. You could flush the loo with grey water but storing it normally entails challenges (it will start to stink as the bio matter rots).

Rain water is probably the best to use as its easy to filter & sterilise with UV light. You are happy for rain to fall on crops. If you have a first flush system most of the water collected should be pretty clean.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252629570...Bk9SR6a6q4qhYg

or filter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364278821...Bk9SR7yiuYqhYg

You can add filters and chemicals to grey water but its a bit technical so not much use for the average home owner.

https://www.bluebarrelsystems.com/bl...t%20the%20same.

You could use grey water to water trees and shrubs but not food normally, also imagine what bleach will do to your lawn (most bathroom cleaners use some form of it).

Good point there about shower & sink warm up water, you could have a button that starts warm up and redirects the water before it gets to the shower to a near potable store outside via a 15mm redirect pipe from the hot water so it never goes near a drain and no cold water is wasted, that would be perfect for toilet flushing or watering. My plan is to do that in the en-suite and bathroom if I can.

[SueEllen]

A water butt is not really offering much storage. Typically they are only a couple hundred litres. I'm talking proper collection built in a bit more, so you can have your toilets and outside tap work from it.

Bare in mind some people grow edibles. (I do but my garden isn't full of them.)

Obviously solved by having two outside taps - one grey and one fresh water.

[d000hg]

I've worked in office blocks that were built this century that used grey water for toilets.

And people are told to use water butts for watering their garden in general particularly if they are on a water meter. The only problem is people tend to water their gardens when rain is lacking and water butts run out of water.

A water butt is not really offering much storage. Typically they are only a couple hundred litres. I'm talking proper collection built in a bit more, so you can have your toilets and outside tap work from it.

[d000hg]

Aquifers and reservoirs. Grey water prevents water reaching the aquifers and reservoirs. It's largely a closed system.

You don't see how reusing the water from your bath/shower to flush your toilet conserves water?

[vetran]

Some water companies including Thames Water take their water from rivers and lakes to fill up their reservoirs. This is why the source of the Thames dried up last year even though waste water is pumped back into another part of the Thames.


There is no point building a reservoir or even looking at grey water systems, to be fair, if more clean water is leaked from your company's pipes per person than what the average person uses in a day.

As per my post grey water systems could reduce demand on clean water and sewage systems.

Repairing pipes I agree should be a priority but expanding the mainly Victorian water & sewage system massively is where our growing population is forcing us to go. Both ways for water are very broken. Decreasing peak demand by 30% is a good move.

I think its a multi faceted solution that is needed. Grey water by default on new homes is something the Government can mandate with little cost to them. Similar to solar , passivehaus or new boiler.

[vetran]

I don't really see the point of grey water. It's not 'conserving' water is it? It's just taking some water and using it without the need for sanitation. Sanitation process isn't expensive or wasteful really.

IMO it would be more efficient to make the sanitation greener with renewables than to encourage (grants) or mandate grey water systems on properties.

I'm sure a brand new office or maybe even flats could incorporate a greywater system and it make financial sense.

By all means make sanitation plants greener but that doesn't solve the issues outside the already efficient treatment works or the lack of capacity.

Only 4% of household water is drunk or used on food. The amount of water used per person is growing every year and the population is also growing, at some point the amount of sewage in the already overloaded sewer system will mean vast amounts of sewage will end up in the waterways.

https://www.waterwise.org.uk/wp-cont...bout-Water.pdf

I don't fancy showering in reused water but I am happy to water plants, wash the car, jet wash the patio and flush the loo with rain water it so long as we keep it sanitary. It doesn't have to be potable.

Retrofit is frequently more expensive but it doesn't have to be ruinous. The government needs to do something and this looks attractive, obviously not every dwelling can benefit.

30% of water is toilet flushing so using shower / bath water (21%) or rain water makes a lot of sense it reduces water usage per person by 30%. Whilst you may have to re-plumb water

Watering plants and washing the car etc is about 10%.

Using primarily rain water means flooding will decrease (the tanks will act as buffer for torrential rain which flood areas have a massive problem with). The water will normally be softer (I live in a hard water area) there is also a lower public health risk as some human animals use the shower for a toilet.

I have multiple water butts (£50 for 200L so probably £250 for 5 i.e. 4 person days or £50 if you have space for an IBC pop it below your air source heat pump if you want or a raised bed) and pump (about £100 for premium solar solution) Adding a 100- 200 litre water header tank in the attic £200 + UV steriliser £50-£200) would take the DIY solution to £1000-£1500, a saving of a third on the water bill £200 (30% for my house) gives a ROI of say 5 years for the household DIY. say 10 years for a professional system.

As it becomes more common prices would fall.

Using rain water then you are less likely to soften the water which means less salt & electricity and of course water wastage during regeneration. Not saying don't use a softener just put less water through it.

For the water company 30% less water to clean means it can cope with 30% more people, 30% less sewage contaminated water (rainwater still mainly goes into sewers) in the pipes during heavy rain means less needs to go into the waterways, you have a 30% buffer on rainwater. Looks a better deal than solar with half the repayment time with no grant.

This will also ease during water outages for repairs, if I can flush the loo, water plants, shower elsewhere and use bottled water or standpipes my life is bearable for a day or so while they repair the pipes currently we fill the bath so we can flush.

Mandating it on new build houses with gardens makes a lot of sense for the government and grants to retrofit make sense as well.

Luckily most of this kit has a lifetime of decades and can be installed by a lightly trained plumber/handyman.

[SueEllen]

Aquifers and reservoirs. Grey water prevents water reaching the aquifers and reservoirs. It's largely a closed system.

Some water companies including Thames Water take their water from rivers and lakes to fill up their reservoirs. This is why the source of the Thames dried up last year even though waste water is pumped back into another part of the Thames.

Water butts is one thing, when we are talking about full on grey water system is just becomes greenwashing. If we need more water you build a big reservoir, you don't pay more for millions of people to create their own family size reservoir, which is what grey water system is.

There is no point building a reservoir or even looking at grey water systems, to be fair, if more clean water is leaked from your company's pipes per person than what the average person uses in a day.