Reply to: Arise Sir Mo..

[vetran]

This is correct. Asylum seekers may not, by international convention, be prosecuted for entering the country illegally. But effectively it means, be law, that no means of entry is illegal. It's just a matter of semantics.

No such thing as a bogus asylum seeker, merely a failed one. The person was seeking asylum, genuinely, but their grounds were judged too weak. The seeker gets their request for asylum denied and is required to leave the country / deported.

If failed asylum seekers were to be prosecuted for entering the country illegally, that would deter asylum seekers from coming to the country, which is contrary to international agreement (see above).

So someone trying to obtain asylum by deceit is called what?

[NotAllThere]

He didn't he gave me the answer he believes.

It is illegal however applying for Asylum overrules this,

This is correct. Asylum seekers may not, by international convention, be prosecuted for entering the country illegally. But effectively it means, be law, that no means of entry is illegal. It's just a matter of semantics.

If they can prove you are a bogus asylum seeker then guess what the illegality returns.

No such thing as a bogus asylum seeker, merely a failed one. The person was seeking asylum, genuinely, but their grounds were judged too weak. The seeker gets their request for asylum denied and is required to leave the country / deported.

If failed asylum seekers were to be prosecuted for entering the country illegally, that would deter asylum seekers from coming to the country, which is contrary to international agreement (see above).

[vetran]

You weren't suppose to give him the answer especially as he thinks crossing the channel in a boat is illegal.

He didn't he gave me the answer he believes.

It is illegal however applying for Asylum overrules this, just like murder is illegal but claiming self defence means you may not be charged with murder. If they can prove you are a bogus asylum seeker then guess what the illegality returns.

[vetran]

According to international law, any means.

hmm even Full fact disagrees partially with you.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/can...-uk-illegally/

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.

However, in 1999 a UK judge ruled that “some element of choice is indeed open to refugees as to where they may properly claim asylum.” The judge specified that “any merely short term stopover en route” to another country should not forfeit the individual’s right to claim refugee status elsewhere.

This means people can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries. Once in the UK it is then up to the authorities to review that application.

I'm not sure a short stopover in a safe country is 6 months in the Calais jungle. Maybe we need to consider this in court again now it is obvious many asylum seekers have been proven lying?

So if we reject their asylum claim we can deport them and prosecute them for entering illegally.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/ref...-safe-country/

[SueEllen]

According to international law, any means.

You weren't suppose to give him the answer especially as he thinks crossing the channel in a boat is illegal.

[NotAllThere]

Right now you can answer one of my previous questions - what are legal ways someone can enter the UK to claim asylum now?

According to international law, any means.

[vetran]

Right now you can answer one of my previous questions - what are legal ways someone can enter the UK to claim asylum now?

that wasn't a question you asked.

You asked the legal ways someone could get here. That is the points based system which none of these would pass.

If we can solve this then I would be happy to consider asylum visitor passes or similar for people who can prove who they are. We should be part of the world asylum system but not the end of an illegal pipeline.

90% are male, surely that offends your sensibilities? they abandoned their women.

[vetran]

You mean like some of the posters on this board who don't want to work anymore so have retired?

Pensioners, people who are so disabled they are unsuitable for work, carers, and parents staying at home to bring up children while they may be economically inactive are can't be made to work.



There are more jobs than people. Some hospitality places are stealing staff from other places by offering them higher and higher wages but they still can't get people.

Everyone has their price, maybe minimum wage is too low even for people willing to work.

£12 an hour on split shifts at one of London's most expensive restaurants (Salt Bae) doesn't seem like desperation.

This is a fairly good write up. When Brexit forced the wages up if you wanted a visa based chef ,covid dropped the supply as those doing 80+ hour weeks for peanuts said stuff this.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...-ever-be-fixed

Dave Turnbull, Unite’s lead officer for hospitality, says the industry, broadly, is in “complete denial” about how disillusioned staff are. A June 2020 Unite survey found 52% of chefs regard the job negatively. Only 22% would recommend it to school-leavers.

Chefs’ wages have risen quickly in recent years and in June the jobs marketplace, Indeed Flex, found the labour shortage had boosted hourly hospitality pay by up to 9%. But low pay, long hours and poor management remain problems in an industry dogged by reported accusations of, for instance, owners clawing back service charge revenues, bullying kitchen cultures and sexual harassment.

It was like this 30 years ago and it hasn't changed much from what I hear.

About 60% of our taxes are income related those on low incomes don't pay them so cheap labour will need to be carried if we want decent services. Make the Employers pay more not make profits in tax havens.

disgusting they should work for less open the border!!!!

https://fortune.com/2021/07/08/hirin...-old-jobs-pay/



Coffee shop

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries...RCH_KO0,21.htm

Costa £8-9
median £6.28

Commis chef

https://uk.talent.com/salary?job=commis+chef

£11.28

Dishwasher

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK...er/Hourly_Rate

Lidl

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Lidl/salaries

Customer service £9.77
Shift Manager (commis level) £11.40

Lidl are having trouble hiring but mostly you don't have to put up with your colleagues drunk , armed with knives or finishing at 3am

[SueEllen]

Well as they are pointing out in the spectator article those arriving now proven liars maybe it makes a difference?

I know a few genuine refugees from the Ugandan conflict they didn't camp in Calais and use a Dinghy, they were welcomed at the airport.


It is a bit confusing how you personally can't tell them apart, Refugees direct from a conflict zone and economic refugees fleeing the tyranny of France.

try this

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post...yria-vacations

Right now you can answer one of my previous questions - what are legal ways someone can enter the UK to claim asylum now?

[SueEllen]

I'm not deflecting, you are obsessed with enabling immigration when we have millions of economically inactive.

You mean like some of the posters on this board who don't want to work anymore so have retired?

Pensioners, people who are so disabled they are unsuitable for work, carers, and parents staying at home to bring up children while they may be economically inactive are can't be made to work.

Strangely whenever some employer wants access to Visa's the people who will be on minimum wage are highly skilled and can only come from abroad.

The Airlines are bemoaning no one wants to work for minimum wages on crappy shifts because after they fired & rehired to save money they can't rehire

Pay good money you get good staff.

The vetran's workers party are united indeed you could say we are of one mind.

There are more jobs than people. Some hospitality places are stealing staff from other places by offering them higher and higher wages but they still can't get people.

[vetran]

You're deflecting.

You know damn well we're not talking a shortage of skilled workers in the UK, it's the unskilled jobs we are short in. So how exactly will the points based system work in that scenario?

And, btw, I don't think we should steal nurses from other countries. I think we should train our own. I fully support free training for nurses, zero student fees and full grants, but your beloved Tories think otherwise.

You are correct, there are plenty possible solutions out there but after all this time in power your lot are still more interested in infighting than solving problems.

I'm not deflecting, you are obsessed with enabling immigration when we have millions of economically inactive.

Strangely whenever some employer wants access to Visa's the people who will be on minimum wage are highly skilled and can only come from abroad.

The Airlines are bemoaning no one wants to work for minimum wages on crappy shifts because after they fired & rehired to save money they can't rehire

Pay good money you get good staff.


The vetran's workers party are united indeed you could say we are of one mind.

[vetran]

What has me being educated with people who came to the UK as child refugees with their families to escape from well-known conflicts of the 70s, 80s and early 90s got to do with your Spectator link?

And no I wouldn't know Sir Mo as he is younger than me.

Well as they are pointing out in the spectator article those arriving now proven liars maybe it makes a difference?

I know a few genuine refugees from the Ugandan conflict they didn't camp in Calais and use a Dinghy, they were welcomed at the airport.


It is a bit confusing how you personally can't tell them apart, Refugees direct from a conflict zone and economic refugees fleeing the tyranny of France.

try this

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post...yria-vacations

[SueEllen]

You wouldn't have met Sir Mo he was trafficked into modern Slavery.

I'm glad you know the background of all the child refugees you met, many experts disagree they are either children or refugees.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...s-not-children

Obviously its all a lie and we British are a bunch of racists



of course allowing them in is adding to our rich society

What has me being educated with people who came to the UK as child refugees with their families to escape from well-known conflicts of the 70s, 80s and early 90s got to do with your Spectator link?

And no I wouldn't know Sir Mo as he is younger than me.

[Whorty]

We already do that why do you think the Philippine government complained formally that we were stealing their nurses then decided what the hell and trained a surplus.

We steal from lots of developing countries in this way its embarrassing and unfair.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-b1864069.html

what we should do is train people in the UK and encourage foreign workers to do an exchange so both countries can benefit.

It is entirely possible to apply to move to the UK using the points based system.

Despite all the bull put out these migrants in the boats aren't all brain surgeons they are economic migrants who cannot get here legally so pretend to be asylum seekers.

You're deflecting.

You know damn well we're not talking a shortage of skilled workers in the UK, it's the unskilled jobs we are short in. So how exactly will the points based system work in that scenario?

And, btw, I don't think we should steal nurses from other countries. I think we should train our own. I fully support free training for nurses, zero student fees and full grants, but your beloved Tories think otherwise.

You are correct, there are plenty possible solutions out there but after all this time in power your lot are still more interested in infighting than solving problems.

[vetran]

You call what I quoted from the Houses of Parliament a load of tulip, yet it is the law in England as it currently stands. The Fail and the BBC have their own biases.


Incidentally Sir Mo's story reminded me of all the people I met (well I was educated with them) from aged 5 onwards who were child refugees - a few of them did escape to a safe country on a boat.

You wouldn't have met Sir Mo he was trafficked into modern Slavery.

I'm glad you know the background of all the child refugees you met, many experts disagree they are either children or refugees.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...s-not-children

Obviously its all a lie and we British are a bunch of racists

When Norway insisted on a dental examination of arriving refugee children, they discovered nine out of ten were, in fact, over 18.

of course allowing them in is adding to our rich society

A worker in a residential home in Kent for children in care said that half of the children there are unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. In her estimation, more than half the migrants are not children at all, but in their twenties.
‘They can be quite frightening at times,’ she said. ‘They are aggressive and have an attitude problem. Many have no respect for women because of their culture. No one is giving consideration to the risks they pose, not just to staff but to the other children in the home. Because they are older, they have a lot of influence on the youngsters, who are very vulnerable. They introduce the children to alcohol and get them into crime like street robberies. It is a serious problem, which those in authority are not tackling.’