Reply to: Planning Permission

[DealorNoDeal]

BTW, I found the recommendation from the Senior Planning Officer to refuse permission.

"The site is in an unsustainable rural location away from any settlement, the proposed dwelling would be visible within the rural context and would detract from the open countryside character and the special landscape character and scenic beauty of the Cornwall AONB in which the site lies through the introduction of built residential development. The evidence provided has not demonstrated that there is a functional need for an agricultural worker to live on site, nor has it been demonstrated that the farming business is financially viable to an extent that would support a new dwelling. Furthermore, the personal circumstances of the applicant are not of sufficient weight to overcome this lack of justification and the identified harm to the AONB to which great weight must be given."

But the Planning Committee went against this and voted to approve it.

[d000hg]

Yeah the pre-planning is there to help you find and fix issues in your main application it's not binding in any way. It was because of the comments we got from that that we engaged a planning consultant, as it became obvious we didn't know how to do a proper application with a good chance of success.

You can of course get retrospective PP - if you do work without permission and there's no problem with it this should be fine though there might (?) be a surcharge.
If you are doing something that's actually a problem, there's a pretty good chance you will get 'dobbed in' because it will be blocking a neighbour's view or the building lorries will piss people off and they'll check if a PP was granted.
I have an alert set on my immediate area for any PP applications

[DealorNoDeal]

From our's and neighbour's experience here:

Suppose you want to do X, where X is a bit iffy.

1) if you informally ask a Planning Officer about it, they'll almost certainly say no chance
2) if you submit a pre-planning application, they'll also probably say no chance
3) if you submit a full planning application, you have more of a chance
4) if you do X without permission and are unlucky enough to get dobbed in, they're very unlikely* to take enforcement action (in other words you'll be allowed to get away with it)

* the only exception to this is if you build a house or massive extension without PP, or put a static caravan on your land (they've got a thing about caravans)

--------------------

If you get away with something for 4 years, without PP, even a new house, you're in the clear anyway. (I think it used to be 10 years but they reduced it.)

[d000hg]

Council policies can be a big PITA (whether it's planning or anything else) because they allow for easy avoidance of meaningful discussion.

Q: We'd like to buy this land the council own, can we make an offer?
A: Our policy is all land for sale must be advertised on the open market to get the best price
Q: OK, well we are interested in buying it, could you put it on the market.
A: Our policy is land may only be put up for sale when it is determined to be surplus
Q: Can you take a look at this plot and see then?
A: This plot has not been marked as surplus so unfortunately we cannot put it up for sale
Q: May we request someone take a look at the plot to see if it could be deemed surplus?
A: This plot has not been marked as surplus so unfortunately we cannot put it up for sale

Very "computer says no".

Similarly:

Q: We'd like to make a planning application to start a business within our property/garden
A: Our policy is to allow no new building outside the boundary of the village, we anticipate your application will be rejected
Q: How is the boundary ascertained
A: it was drawn in 1976
Q: Why is this your policy? Can we discuss the reasoning and why our case should be considered?
A: Our policy is to allow no new building outside the boundary of the village, we anticipate your application will be rejected

[DealorNoDeal]

Surely the woke types are against building anything apart from social housing?

The applicant's son has special needs, and the argument put forward was that it would be best for his long term future if the family could live on the smallholding. The Parish Council and County Councillor supported this, and the Planning Committee went along with it even though it was contrary to planning policy (new build in the open countryside / AONB).

Ironically, the Planning officer said the proposed development wouldn't be suitable for low-cost/social housing because, even with a substantial discount, it would be way out of the reach of ordinary families. Not surprising when it would fetch over £1m on the open market.

[Paddy]

And here's the formula:

1) buy an agricultural field* somewhere nice
2) do a bit of "farming" on it (few goats, chickens etc)
3) hire a planning consultant who knows how to "navigate" the system
4) apply for planning permission for a house on the basis that [...] outweighs any planning considerations
5) get your (woke/virtue signalling) Parish Council and County Councillor on side
6) and with a bit of luck, bingo!

* can be as cheap as £10k/acre, depending on where you, live but certainly a tiny fraction of the cost of building land

Yep, there is a chappie not far away who does this, he then divides the land and sells it off and then builds another farm house until it ends up with loads of small farms with half a dozen chickens on each of them

[d000hg]

Surely the woke types are against building anything apart from social housing?

We have used a planning consultant to overturn an objection before so that part sounds legit. But this is about them knowing the rules to avoid council just saying "no we don't like it" not 'trick' anyone. Well at least ours was.

The planning application is presumably live on the internet for anyone interested, have you had a nosy?

[DealorNoDeal]

And here's the formula:

1) buy an agricultural field* somewhere nice
2) do a bit of "farming" on it (few goats, chickens etc)
3) hire a planning consultant who knows how to "navigate" the system
4) apply for planning permission for a house on the basis that [...] outweighs any planning considerations
5) get your (woke/virtue signalling) Parish Council and County Councillor on side
6) and with a bit of luck, bingo!

* can be as cheap as £10k/acre, depending on where you, live but certainly a tiny fraction of the cost of building land

[d000hg]

I heard yesterday that he's pissed off the walking fraternity. He's put up signs (ice cream, drinks etc) on the south west coast path, directing people to the shop.

WAlkers are a funny lot. I'd love an ice cream when walking.

[DealorNoDeal]

Oh, and BTW, he's now applied for planning permission to build a house on the land...

It went to the Planning Committee and they approved it. This is in an agricultural field in the open countryside, in an AONB, where there were no existing buildings.

The 10 acre field cost him £100k five years ago. With PP for a new house, the site is now conservatively worth approaching £1M. Not a bad ROI.

There were special individual circumstances why they granted permission. (AFAIK, he didn't grease any palms )

[DealorNoDeal]

We were certainly bemused, our family house was a former farmhouse on the edge of a field. Our septic tank was in a little triangle in the corner of the field which the farmer couldn't even get into with the tractor and a decent size garden was the one thing missing... but we could not get him to sell it. I went through the old sale deeds sorting out the estate the other year and found initially it had been included then the farmer had noticed and made very sure we couldn't have it!

Maybe you didn't offer him enough money. Our neighbour had to pay through the nose for a tiny bit of field to extend their garden.

[d000hg]

Some farmers will never sell but there's regularly farmland for sale. A 6.5 acre field, just down the road from us, sold for £80k a few months ago. Imagine if you could build a house on that. One of our neighbours wanted a bit of land to extend their garden, and the farmer owner was more than happy to sell (at the right price!).

We were certainly bemused, our family house was a former farmhouse on the edge of a field. Our septic tank was in a little triangle in the corner of the field which the farmer couldn't even get into with the tractor and a decent size garden was the one thing missing... but we could not get him to sell it. I went through the old sale deeds sorting out the estate the other year and found initially it had been included then the farmer had noticed and made very sure we couldn't have it!

I've never found Planning too unreasonable when it comes to development within the curtilage of a dwelling house, infill development or conversion of redundant commercial or agricultural buildings. But development on bare farmland is an entirely different matter. I think it's sensible that this is very strictly controlled.

We've found council planners to be much more helpful than expected when doing works. People have it in their heads planners are their to stymie your plans but actually their job is to help you get things done, and make sure you aren't taking the piss. We found that if it was clear you were trying your best and not being adversarial they were willing to be a flexible and use common-sense not say "the regs say 150mm but this is 147mm".

[TheDude]

I heard yesterday that he's pissed off the walking fraternity. He's put up signs (ice cream, drinks etc) on the south west coast path, directing people to the shop.

With respect shouldn't this be in a local rag or on a NIMBY Nosy Neighbour Facebook page?

[DealorNoDeal]

I heard yesterday that he's pissed off the walking fraternity. He's put up signs (ice cream, drinks etc) on the south west coast path, directing people to the shop.

[DealorNoDeal]

Well if this guy is told to tear down his barn he can probably use it as a caravan site instead.

Technically, he'd probably need planning permission for that.