Reply to: JRM

[d000hg]

Bit out of date but seems to be declining in the Western world, wonder if it's related to wealth/health and education. Though I know of well several educated people that are religious which always surprises me.

I think the overall stats are in decline in the west though it's not all that easy to get figures since many people disagree how to count it. People who tick the box on a form, attending a church, etc. The general theme that your traditional CofE & Catholic congregations (what people think of as the stereotype I guess) are dwindling seems quite accurate, likewise people going to church "because that's what you do" is far less the norm. I know few people who attend church who don't strongly want to be there.

My previous church of 2-300 was predominantly university-educated (and uni students) middle class professional types and I've been to others similar but I think a general correlation between declining religious belief and developed world status is a reasonable claim.

[Paddy]

[woohoo]

I used to also assume it was dead or dying, it's a mantra antagonistic groups like to repeat.

In other parts of the world, the church is in a period of quick growth and that's definitely through conversion rather than having babies.

Bit out of date but seems to be declining in the Western world, wonder if it's related to wealth/health and education. Though I know of well several educated people that are religious which always surprises me.

Religion: why faith is becoming more and more popular | Religion | The Guardian

These guys are doing well, nice message and seem decent guys.

Church of Satan - Wikipedia

[d000hg]

On the flip side I suspect the number of adults who practice a religion that was not enforced upon them as a child is statistically very small.

Not in my experience as a practising Christian. The traditional church denominations have seen decline (although some growth during lockdown) but others have been growing - churches meeting in schools, business park buildings, houses, etc. We see lots of conversions through outreach of various types. No idea on stats but of my peers who are worshipping Christians, the majority (probably the large majority) were either non-religious as kids or came from Christian families but were not Christians until adulthood. I know fairly few Christians under 50 who would say they have always been Christians.
I used to also assume it was dead or dying, it's a mantra antagonistic groups like to repeat.

In other parts of the world, the church is in a period of quick growth and that's definitely through conversion rather than having babies.

[WTFH]

I do love it when atheists explain what Christianity means. Bit like how everyone in the pub always knows better than their football team's manager.

Please provide evidence where JRM's words and actions that align to the verses quoted.

As one of the verses said, "by their fruits you will know them". If JRM does not behave in a Christ-like manner, then I'd refer you to Matthew 25.

Unless, as you say, I don't know him. Maybe he's one of those Sunday christians, who sings the hymns and says amen, but walks out the church door and goes back to the public person we see the rest of the time.

[TheDude]

It would be wrong for a Christian family NOT to bring their kids of in their faith (from their perspective), but the UK is a very secular nation these days. Statistically this is not where more than a fraction of atheists come from.

On the flip side I suspect the number of adults who practice a religion that was not enforced upon them as a child is statistically very small.

[d000hg]

Unfortunately I know more than a handful of people this tulip happened to and there was also an attempt in my extended family, which was unsuccessful due to the number of atheists and agnostics.

It would be wrong for a Christian family NOT to bring their kids of in their faith (from their perspective), but the UK is a very secular nation these days. Statistically this is not where more than a fraction of atheists come from.

[SueEllen]

Are you white-knighting for WTFH now? That's not a very common occurrence in modern UK maybe they can explain if they were locked under the stairs memorising the bible as a kid for themself.

Unfortunately I know more than a handful of people this tulip happened to and there was also an attempt in my extended family, which was unsuccessful due to the number of atheists and agnostics.

[d000hg]

So it's not occurred to you that some atheists were brought up in a religion, including having to study it, and only when they left home were they allowed to be released from it's rituals.

Are you white-knighting for WTFH now? That's not a very common occurrence in modern UK statistically... maybe they can explain if they were locked under the stairs memorising the bible as a kid for themself.

[WTFH]

If you're not sure about the difference between a Partner/Shareholder and an Employee, there's probably some material which will help you round here somewhere.

While he (an individual) may have stepped down, it appears his company, Saliston Ltd, are still quite strongly linked.

(Saliston are the crowd that lend him £2million to redecorate a house in London that he manages to repay a few months later)

[SueEllen]

I do love it when atheists explain what Christianity means. Bit like how everyone in the pub always knows better than their football team's manager.

So it's not occurred to you that some atheists were brought up in a religion, including having to study it, and only when they left home were they allowed to be released from it's rituals.

[Mordac]

JRM sold all his shares in Russian Banks 24 hours prior to UK sanctions being announced (insider dealing)

I can't stand him either, but since the Mods don't seem to care about correcting potentially libelous statements I'll do it for them:

Oliver Crawley, partner at Somerset Capital Management, said: “Jacob Rees-Mogg no longer works at Somerset Capital Management and has had no role in any of the firm’s investment decisions for over a decade.

If you're not sure about the difference between a Partner/Shareholder and an Employee, there's probably some material which will help you round here somewhere.

Somerset Capital Management started winding down its holding in Sberbank in 2019. It sold its final 361,861 shares between September and November 2021.

Which is a bit more than 24 hours, and certainly before any build-up of Russian troops or talk of sanctions. Probably not insider trading then, just in case any lawyers are watching...

(Quotes are from the Telegraph, but were similarly reported in the FT although I don't have a subscription.)

[d000hg]

I do love it when atheists explain what Christianity means. Bit like how everyone in the pub always knows better than their football team's manager.

[WTFH]

You seem to know a lot about him, certainly more than those I know who have met him. You may have been a teensy bit biased by the tabloid caricature. Certainly he has morals and scruples, they just are not ones you agree with. I wonder how you are able to speak with such certainty to his personal faith or lack thereof, that you know more than he does.

Perhaps I am wrong and his personal life is completely different to the public persona that he projects. But since you asked, I have based those comments on his words and actions over the last few years.

Matthew 5:3-10
Matthew 7:15-23
Matthew 15:11
Matthew 25:31-46

[d000hg]

being a Christian and lacking morals are not mutually exclusive....

Not according the the handbook. Although there's a large element of pot/kettle when CUK General is making accusations of immorality.