Reply to: Polling guru Curtice warns Sturgeon on course to tear UK apart with SNP independence

[DoctorStrangelove]

*** Prediction (bookmark this) ***

And where's the other source of sub 20nm stuff?

South Korea.

Right next to Rocket Boy, Red China's best buddy.

You don't have to be paranoid to know they're out to get you.

Red China has attempted to get on the semiconductor production bandwagon for decades with little success.

Maybe they've sussed a method of doing it by knocking out the competition so we're all back to 100nm all over again again.

[AtW]

Intel is just trying to limit AMD growth by buying as many TSMC wafers they can - vintage Intel

[TwoWolves]

A 10nm fab costs about $12B.

And:

Intel ‘Slaughters Sacred Cow,’ May Move Production to TSMC, Samsung - SDxCentral

So if the Chinese Reds really want to feck the west, then hitting Taiwan sounds like a plan to me.

*** Prediction (bookmark this) ***

[DoctorStrangelove]

Outsourcing of manufacturing only happened because of WTO that allowed importation of stuff made in countries with tulip working conditions, tulip ecology, tulip quality without any tariffs getting that stuff back into EU/US - that's was the fundamental flaw: free trade with countriers that are not on the same level.

It was totally bonkers strategic decision for which successive Govts are fully responsible, it's not just low margin stuff, why isn't UK making 5nm chips and Taiwain (only got 14 countries with full diplomatic relations with!!!) does it???

A 10nm fab costs about $12B.

And:

Intel ‘Slaughters Sacred Cow,’ May Move Production to TSMC, Samsung - SDxCentral

So if the Chinese Reds really want to feck the west, then hitting Taiwan sounds like a plan to me.

[AtW]

Well actually encouraging people to come over to learn technical English meant plenty of technical jobs went to Eastern Europe, ditto India. Germany & France not so much but it is happening.

Should have adopted French in skools then

[vetran]

That was the key idea of EU expansion - outsourcing might still happen but to Eastern Europe which won’t be on as bad playing field as with China.

Next step will be big tariffs on goods from countries that are not having level playing field - if Trump wasn’t a cretin he would have blown up WTO and made trade deal with EU (plus Australia, Canada and Japan, Taiwan).

Well actually encouraging people to come over to learn technical English meant plenty of technical jobs went to Eastern Europe, ditto India. Germany & France not so much but it is happening.

[PCTNN]

Anyway, putting a price on liberty is a bit pathetic

The brexit morons have done it!

It's £350 million a week.

[AtW]

That was the key idea of EU expansion - outsourcing might still happen but to Eastern Europe which won’t be on as bad playing field as with China.

Next step will be big tariffs on goods from countries that are not having level playing field - if Trump wasn’t a cretin he would have blown up WTO and made trade deal with EU (plus Australia, Canada and Japan, Taiwan).

[vetran]

Outsourcing of manufacturing only happened because of WTO that allowed importation of stuff made in countries with tulip working conditions, tulip ecology, tulip quality without any tariffs getting that stuff back into EU/US - that's was the fundamental flaw: free trade with countriers that are not on the same level.

It was totally bonkers strategic decision for which successive Govts are fully responsible, it's not just low margin stuff, why isn't UK making 5nm chips and Taiwain (only got 14 countries with full diplomatic relations with!!!) does it???

Agree completely with that.

[vetran]

That was the key problem, and it wasn’t EUs fault it happened - it was (successive) British Govts, just like low minimum wage wqsn’t set by EU

This has happened in every European and first world country I worked with. I used to work for worldwide IT not just the UK. Factories & warehouses were the first to close in any country, then call centres. Engineering & Sales stayed, some of that is now in Eastern Europe and India.


Manufacturing in France, Germany, Italy, Spain all went to low cost countries. Complex or bespoke stuff originally stayed but that is moving too.

Whilst the UK was particularly bad at slowing the pace and replacing the jobs, plenty of other countries have felt the axe.

20 years ago I would visit a factory and office in France and it covered acres with a canteen and a dedicated bus route. Now its a small glass office on a trading estate. Similar with Germany & Italy.

[AtW]

Outsourcing of manufacturing only happened because of WTO that allowed importation of stuff made in countries with tulip working conditions, tulip ecology, tulip quality without any tariffs getting that stuff back into EU/US - that's was the fundamental flaw: free trade with countriers that are not on the same level.

It was totally bonkers strategic decision for which successive Govts are fully responsible, it's not just low margin stuff, why isn't UK making 5nm chips and Taiwain (only got 14 countries with full diplomatic relations with!!!) does it???

[vetran]

“Just in time delivery” is the term from the before B.....t times

Still is when the goods come from manufacturing in "best cost countries". In my experience many of the factories in the EU are being closed or heavily automated if good tax deals are offered. I have personally walked through huge factories across Europe and asked 'why so empty' the reply was frequently - 'oh that was the product X line its now manufactured in Africa/Mexico/Thailand (delete as appropriate), we still design it here'.

We need to understand these realities and adjust.

[AtW]

Was happening down south as well. Not many people want to work in a warehouse for 10 hours at minimum wage when there are benefits to be had. Either up the wage, drop the benefits or automate.

After Brexit was announced the next comment at the town hall meeting was - "who are we going to employ when our production line & warehouse staff go home"? These organisations had been going for decades and frequently employed whole British families but suddenly replaced all their staff with Eastern Europeans after 2004. Production was exported to Africa and the warehouse workers are minimum wage Agency workers of any flavour.

That was the key problem, and it wasn’t EUs fault it happened - it was (successive) British Govts, just like low minimum wage wqsn’t set by EU

[vetran]

Well from close sources, most of the workers in (the south Yorkshire coal mining regeneration area) are east European anyway.

Was happening down south as well. Not many people want to work in a warehouse for 10 hours at minimum wage when there are benefits to be had. Either up the wage, drop the benefits or automate.

After Brexit was announced the next comment at the town hall meeting was - "who are we going to employ when our production line & warehouse staff go home"? These organisations had been going for decades and frequently employed whole British families but suddenly replaced all their staff with Eastern Europeans after 2004. Production was exported to Africa and the warehouse workers are minimum wage Agency workers of any flavour.

[AtW]

“Just in time delivery” is the term from the before B.....t times