Reply to: Nazi legacy flagging

[NotAllThere]

When Keanu Reeves was in Hamlet, the audience would chuckle over his line "my excellent good friends".

[vetran]

An enormously important point that seems to be lost to the woke. Brought in by those stupid, hating, evangelical Christians like William Wilberforce - assisted of course by decent non-evangelicals.

Hey believe in whatever supreme entity you like but just follow the gospel according to Bill & Ted!

[NotAllThere]

...everyone was doing it until the UK stopped it.

An enormously important point that seems to be lost to the woke. Brought in by those stupid, hating, evangelical Christians like William Wilberforce - assisted of course by decent non-evangelicals.

[vetran]

That's a very good question. Why have some people who would have supported the principles of the Labour or Conservative party switched to show closer alignment to that of the "National Socialist" party, particularly in terms of demonising/punishing people based on their religion, sexual orientation or skin colour?

I don't have the answer to that one.

I think its probably linked to Labour & Conservatives demonstrated love of uncontrolled immigration. It was obvious decades ago that changing the ethnic mix over the last 30 years was going to upset the locals adding competition for scarce houses (because no government will build any) and soon jobs will light the blue touch paper.


All the time it didn't bother anyone, the hard left and right had no traction. Now it will sadly be a tulipstorm.

[WTFH]

Why did they switch political allegiance? Both the Labour & Conservative party manifestos & performance would be almost unrecognisable to their founders.

That's a very good question. Why have some people who would have supported the principles of the Labour or Conservative party switched to show closer alignment to that of the "National Socialist" party, particularly in terms of demonising/punishing people based on their religion, sexual orientation or skin colour?

I don't have the answer to that one.

[vetran]

How many generations believe they fought in "the war", even if they have switched political allegiance since?

Why did they switch political allegiance? Both the Labour & Conservative party manifestos & performance would be almost unrecognisable to their founders.

The language is however familiar

1929 Labour Party Manifesto -

First MacDonald ministry - Wikipedia

In addition, government funds were allocated for the repair and modernisation of 60,000 government built houses.^[16]

Housing

The Labour Party is the Party of the Workers' Home. In 1924, it revived the policy of building Houses to be let and not sold. It will return to that policy until there are enough Houses let at Working-class Rents. It will deal drastically with the Slum disgrace and will provide the necessary money grants for both purposes. In the meantime it will protect tenants by continuing the Rent Restriction Acts.

Who built more council houses - Margaret Thatcher or New Labour? - Full Fact

While Labour has promised that it would double the rate of housebuilding by 2020 (equivalent to some 240,000 homes per year), one of its London Assembly members has argued that the party should "apologise" for its record on affordable housing.Tom Copley, Labour's housing spokesman in the capital, said that Margaret Thatcher's government had built more council flats and houses in a single year than New Labour's managed in its entire period in office.
This is correct. The official data shows that the Blair and Brown governments built 7,870 council houses (local authority tenure) over the course of 13 years. (If we don't include 2010 - the year when David Cameron became PM - this number drops to 6,510.) Mr Copley has contrasted this figure with the record of Mrs Thatcher's government, which never built fewer than 17,710 homes in a year.

[vetran]

It's an interesting question.

When the last person whose remembers having had a living ancestor who remembered and suffered through the event dies, then I think it's over. So that'd be, what?, 3 generations?.

Matilda McCrear died in 1940 in the US, and she was slave traded from Africa. Her grandson was 3 when she died, so perhaps has some memory of her. If so, when he dies then the US slave trade is definitely historical - perhaps as long as 170 years for some events, less for others. The holocaust would then become an historical event in 95 years time.

Interestingly, she tried to claim compensation for the slavery in the 1930s - but naturally as a black women in Alabama, her case was dismissed. Of course, she was a direct victim of the crime.

I think that most people now see the holocaust as history but there are live survivors. Obviously we shouldn't forget or forgive but most move on. There are descendants of the prisoners and guards they don't constantly berate each other.

Slavery is frequently seen as a problem created by Europeans / new world invaders but the reality is that everyone was doing it until the UK stopped it. It still continues but is illegal almost everywhere. We know the economic benefit was shared (mostly) by the African sellers of Slaves and the slavers that purchased slaves at the going rate during this foul but legal trade.

'''My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves''' - BBC News

My great-grandfather, Nwaubani Ogogo Oriaku, was what I prefer to call a businessman, from the Igbo ethnic group of south-eastern Nigeria. He dealt in a number of goods, including tobacco and palm produce. He also sold human beings."He had agents who captured slaves from different places and brought them to him," my father told me.


Nwaubani Ogogo's slaves were sold through the ports of Calabar and Bonny in the south of what is today known as Nigeria.


People from ethnic groups along the coast, such as the Efik and Ijaw, usually acted as stevedores for the white merchants and as middlemen for Igbo traders like my great-grandfather.


They loaded and offloaded ships and supplied the foreigners with food and other provisions. They negotiated prices for slaves from the hinterlands, then collected royalties from both the sellers and buyers.

The Story of Africa| BBC World Service

Strangely this part of the truth is ignored.

Maybe a parallel to the holocaust should we be closing every firm or person that worked for the NAZIs or reported someone to go into the holocaust? We haven't done that and yet the Holocaust was a crime against humanity. Slavery again was legal even though it shouldn't have been. Few Holocaust survivors have been paid compensation and if then paltry amounts.

Holocaust Compensation & Restitution, by Country.

Or should we look at what Russia did to Poland? Serbia etc? France to Algeria?

Plenty of slavery happening now lets deal with that.

The key thing we need to do now is fix what is happening now. Why are Black boys & Men (frequently criminals) nine times more likely to be killed (mainly by other Black boys) than white men/boys?

Why do we stop many more BAME suspects but still get ~ 25% prosecutions? Are we missing the white criminals or are BAME more likely to commit crime? How can we get a 100% hit rate on stop & search yet stop more people to deny the streets to criminals.

Why do we see BAME with poorer life outcomes how do we fix that?

[WTFH]

How many generations believe they fought in "the war", even if they have switched political allegiance since?

[NotAllThere]

well it seems at least 5.

It's an interesting question.

When the last person whose remembers having had a living ancestor who remembered and suffered through the event dies, then I think it's over. So that'd be, what?, 3 generations?.

Matilda McCrear died in 1940 in the US, and she was slave traded from Africa. Her grandson was 3 when she died, so perhaps has some memory of her. If so, when he dies then the US slave trade is definitely historical - perhaps as long as 170 years for some events, less for others. The holocaust would then become an historical event in 95 years time.

Interestingly, she tried to claim compensation for the slavery in the 1930s - but naturally as a black women in Alabama, her case was dismissed. Of course, she was a direct victim of the crime.

[vetran]

How many generations are we talking about, just want to check if I have the right to be offended.

well it seems at least 5.

[Zigenare]

I would avoid saying it to their descendants as well.

How many generations are we talking about, just want to check if I have the right to be offended.

[AtW]

Surprised they did not remove A, N, I and Z from it

[vetran]

If I ever meet an ex-slave I shall remember your advice, lest I hurt their feelings.

I would avoid saying it to their descendants as well.

[vetran]

Yep you're right. That's basically why the Nazis replaced the original David, Nathan and Zecharias with Dora, Nardpol and Zeppelin. Other Nazi legacies in Germany include not being allowed to home school.

Oh do keep up grandad, I thanked for the snippet which was an aspect of Nazism I had never thought of as it was so obscure.

I then commented it was something that was common in lots of groups that want to change the narrative and exert control. An observation Orwell made with his newspeak but the communists, Fascists, Woke and BLM all do it.

Strange many organisations who want to take control have similar mechanisms, in future do we recognise the mechanism and expect the worse?

[AtW]

I think perhaps they didn't get enough encouragement from their parents when they were children.

Not the Lebensborn ones