DOOM - Don't' Try And Take Your Love Ones From A Care Home

[Gibbon]

That is quiet literally madness. What is the PPE to protect the patient from?

No its not, its a threefold protection:

1) if the patient catches they will still have to isolate so not to pass it to staff and won't be able to rx visitors
2) protects the visitor if Covid has got into the home
3)protects the home in general and other patients and visitors, if a visitor is asymptomatic and has it on their hands, think about it.

[NigelJK]

as hospice is end of life then they do allow visits but it's one named person per patient, with full PPE

That is quiet literally madness. What is the PPE to protect the patient from?

[Gibbon]

I know of worse situations where Social Services muscle in and think they know best. The council secretly obtains an Order in the Court of Protection and the next thing is that granny is taken into a care home and a new Statutory Will is obtained in Court and all the inheritance is gone, house sold etc.

The Law was introduced to protect vulnerable people but it is being used by local councils and private care partnerships as a money making scheme.

That wasn't quite what happened in my case. I had a distant great aunt who was for various reasons out of family contact. She was getting financially abused and neglected by a neighbour who supposed he was looking after her. After several concerns from Age Concern the GP and friends social services got involved and removed her to a care home as she was very ill and vulnerable at the times. Yes the house was sold to help pay for her care. But importantly the residue came down to the family. They actually did the right thing and its not a money making scheme.

[Paddy]

This is very true and unfortunately people also don't realise how complicated the law is in this area. My dad had a very slow progressing form of dementia over a decade and we got an Enduring Power of Attorney for welfare as well as finances very soon after his diagnosis. His needs are exceptionally complex and I've had to enlist the help of legal advisors at a support charity several times when dealing with Social Services, the NHS and his care home. A couple of times a social worker sent me some 'advice booklets' to read that included links to documents that were hundreds of pages long. It's a minefield unless you really know what you are doing.

I know of worse situations where Social Services muscle in and think they know best. The council secretly obtains an Order in the Court of Protection and the next thing is that granny is taken into a care home and a new Statutory Will is obtained in Court and all the inheritance is gone, house sold etc.

The Law was introduced to protect vulnerable people but it is being used by local councils and private care partnerships as a money making scheme.

[edison]

Unfortunately, very few people understand the sad situation when someone old loses mental capacity or someone younger loses capacity as a result of illness or a car accident. I wrote about this some years ago on CUK. POA is not really sufficient.

Lasting or Enduring Power of Attorney should be obtained when the person is healthy, in fact everyone should get POA. However, the family may need authority to deal with the welfare of the person, they will need to apply to the Court of Protection.

Apply to the Mental Health Tribunal - GOV.UK

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney - GOV.UK

Apply for a one-off decision from the Court of Protection - GOV.UK

Deputies: make decisions for someone who lacks capacity: Who can apply to be a deputy - GOV.UK

Enduring power of attorney: acting as an attorney - GOV.UK

This is very true and unfortunately people also don't realise how complicated the law is in this area. My dad had a very slow progressing form of dementia over a decade and we got an Enduring Power of Attorney for welfare as well as finances very soon after his diagnosis. His needs are exceptionally complex and I've had to enlist the help of legal advisors at a support charity several times when dealing with Social Services, the NHS and his care home. A couple of times a social worker sent me some 'advice booklets' to read that included links to documents that were hundreds of pages long. It's a minefield unless you really know what you are doing.

[Paddy]

“We only have Power of Attorney for my Nan’s finances. Not for her wellbeing."

Unfortunately, very few people understand the sad situation when someone old loses mental capacity or someone younger loses capacity as a result of illness or a car accident. I wrote about this some years ago on CUK. POA is not really sufficient.

Lasting or Enduring Power of Attorney should be obtained when the person is healthy, in fact everyone should get POA. However, the family may need authority to deal with the welfare of the person, they will need to apply to the Court of Protection.

Apply to the Mental Health Tribunal - GOV.UK

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney - GOV.UK

Apply for a one-off decision from the Court of Protection - GOV.UK

Deputies: make decisions for someone who lacks capacity: Who can apply to be a deputy - GOV.UK

Enduring power of attorney: acting as an attorney - GOV.UK

[Whorty]

I don't know the answer, but it must be hard for all involved. My wife was recently admitted to the local hospice for 2 weeks and thankfully I was allowed to visit every day (as hospice is end of life then they do allow visits but it's one named person per patient, with full PPE). I couldn't imagine not seeing her at all during those 2 weeks, so it must be awful for care home residents who don't see their family for months.

Hopefully we can find a safe compromise going forward.

[Paralytic]

As clear case of kidnapping as you can ever get - a full confession and video evidence too. Lock her up.

[SueEllen]

...as they will send the police to arrest you.

Woman arrested trying to take 97-year-old mother out of care home | Express & Star

A 73-year-old woman was temporarily arrested and restrained by police after she attempted to take her 97-year-old mother out of a care home.

Video footage shared on social media by former Coronation Street actress Leandra Ashton appeared to capture part of the incident in a car park in Market Weighton in East Yorkshire on Tuesday.

In the two clips an upset Ms Ashton claims she and her mother had taken her grandmother out of the home where she is “deteriorating”, because they had not seen her for nine months.

The 97-year-old woman could be seen sitting in the passenger seat of a stationary car with a police vehicle parked in front of it.

It feels like we are living in the worst Kafka-esque nightmare. People in masks coming to take your relative away from you

Leandra Ashton

Speaking to a police officer and other individuals present, Ms Ashton criticises the “ridiculous” situation.

Ms Ashton also films her mother sitting handcuffed in the back of the police vehicle, who in one clip briefly comforts her.

Ms Ashton tells police at the end of one video: “When rules start to keep families apart I think we have to question the rules.”

In a Facebook post, Ms Ashton wrote: “When the rules – like so many in this period of our history – are purporting to be in place to ‘protect’ but yet are causing untold damage to physical and mental health then you start breaking the rules.”

She claimed her mother is a trained nurse who wanted to care for her grandmother at home.

She wrote: “We only have Power of Attorney for my Nan’s finances. Not for her wellbeing.

“Before lockdown we could over come this by visiting my Nan regularly. Now we can’t. My Mum was arrested because she refused to take my Nan back to the care home.

“It feels like we are living in the worst Kafka-esque nightmare. People in masks coming to take your relative away from you.

“I find myself for the first time in my life on the wrong side of the law.”

She argued rules sometimes needed “challenging and changing” and proposed relatives are given “key-worker status” to allow them to go into a family member’s private room to visit, feed and care for them.

“Officers found both women along with a third woman nearby and informed them that they would need to return the lady to the home, as is their legal duty to do so.

“The situation was distressing and emotional for everyone and the woman did not want her mother to be returned to the care home staff.

“The officer in attendance had to ensure that everyone was safe and in particular the 93-year-old lady who was frail and vulnerable and so made the decision to briefly restrain the 73-year-old woman until the situation was calm and under control.

“Officers then returned the elderly lady to the home.

“The 73-year-old lady was then immediately unrestrained, de-arrested and allowed to return home with her daughter.

“She and her daughter thanked the officers for the way they had dealt with the incident.

“We understand that this is an emotional and difficult situation for all those involved.

“We sympathise with all families who are in this position and will continue to provide whatever support we can to both parties."