Reply to: currently watching this, really informative.

[vetran]

I don't want to start an argument here as I know we all read and watch different stuff, but I've not read any narrative that suggests Africa achieved nothing until western colonial nations invaded. We certainly had a big influence in the Southern nations, and maybe this is what people sometimes consider 'Africa', without remembering that the bulk of the continent is actually up North.

No argument needed. The narrative I refer to is subtle and by omission. The Victorians apparently sent missionaries and soldiers to civilise the natives, there is no teaching about Africa's achievements in school or popular culture, according to this they were up there with the Greeks. I found this history an interesting and new experience. As LM said we didn't look so we didn't know.

[Whorty]

Imagine you're starving to death around 7th of January. You might well miss the fact that it's Christmas.

It may surprise you, but I'm not religious so I can't answer this myself ... but here's my question. If you're religious (let's say Christian) then at times of hardship and pain surely this is the time you're most likely to turn to your god for help? So taking your statement above, if the poor souls are starving then surely they will be remembering their religion and it's ceremonies? I'm not saying they'll be buying each other presents, but surely they will be remembering the birth of their saviour and praying for him to help? Like I say, all alien to me so maybe I'm not quite understanding when people turn to their god for help.

Michael Buerk is a hero in Ethiopia.

I find this highly unlikely - I'd be surprised if many people there have ever heard of him. He was there in 1984, 36 years ago. 60% of their population is under 25 years old. Closer to 75% were not even born when the famine hit (and the famine did not hit the whole country). It's a western thing to think they are still thankful for our help 36 years ago.

Try watching "the misadventures of romesh ranganathan ethiopia" - he talks to the local people and they are frustrated and confused why we in the west still judge Ethiopia based on something that happened for just over a year 36 years ago. Most people in the country were not born then, and they have never faced famine, but we in the west still think of Ethiopia as a famine country.

[Whorty]

It s mind blowing isn't it? The normal narrative we hear suggests Africa had achieved vey little before we got there.

I don't want to start an argument here as I know we all read and watch different stuff, but I've not read any narrative that suggests Africa achieved nothing until western colonial nations invaded. We certainly had a big influence in the Southern nations, and maybe this is what people sometimes consider 'Africa', without remembering that the bulk of the continent is actually up North.

[vetran]

We are fed a particular perspective through school and the media and, whilst it doesn't take much effort to scratch beneath the surface, most people don't bother to look any deeper until someone points out there's an alternative fact / opinion / whatever. Some find that threatening and others are really pleased by it.

I can only speak for myself; I know that my ignorance is purely down to laziness. There's always something else to do, and it's usually trivial timewasting rather than anything useful or productive.

what LMS!

[ladymuck]

Why do you think that is?



(I'm sounding like my history teacher. )

We are fed a particular perspective through school and the media and, whilst it doesn't take much effort to scratch beneath the surface, most people don't bother to look any deeper until someone points out there's an alternative fact / opinion / whatever. Some find that threatening and others are really pleased by it.

I can only speak for myself; I know that my ignorance is purely down to laziness. There's always something else to do, and it's usually trivial timewasting rather than anything useful or productive.

[SueEllen]

It s mind blowing isn't it? The normal narrative we hear suggests Africa had achieved vey little before we got there.

Why do you think that is?



(I'm sounding like my history teacher. )

[vetran]

First two episodes have been really interesting.

It s mind blowing isn't it? The normal narrative we hear suggests Africa had achieved vey little before we got there.

[vetran]

I've been to Johannesburg a couple of time, but have never holidayed in Africa. The S.A. trips were great - no jet lag! The place is so huge though. We've got one of those world maps on the wall of our kitchen that preserves area.

I'm fascinated by the history of Africa, as it is so little known.

Been to Jo'burg once to help with a country site setup. Beautiful country, nice people (at least the ones I met), great food. Odd to drive between gated communities though.

The apartheid museum was fascinating.

[ladymuck]

Now that puts Africa in its rightful place.

BBC Four - Africa's Great Civilisations - Episode guide

First two episodes have been really interesting.

[NotAllThere]

I've been to Johannesburg a couple of time, but have never holidayed in Africa. The S.A. trips were great - no jet lag! The place is so huge though. We've got one of those world maps on the wall of our kitchen that preserves area.

I'm fascinated by the history of Africa, as it is so little known.

[NotAllThere]

This is why the Band Aid "Do they know it's Christmas" song is so cringy and patronising ..... yes, they do know it's Christmas as Ethiopia was Christian way before we were. It's a fascinating country that had one year of droughts and famine, but it's all we think about when someone mentions Ethiopia.

Imagine you're starving to death around 7th of January. You might well miss the fact that it's Christmas.

Michael Buerk is a hero in Ethiopia.

[vetran]

This is why the Band Aid "Do they know it's Christmas" song is so cringy and patronising ..... yes, they do know it's Christmas as Ethiopia was Christian way before we were. It's a fascinating country that had one year of droughts and famine, but it's all we think about when someone mentions Ethiopia.

Not sure that I get that from the lyrics? It seems to be a call to people in the richer world to realise there are people far worse off than we are and do something about it at the time we think about the idea of Jesus and his sacrifice (for believers). There doesn't seem to be any judgement of the recipients.

1: It's Christmas time
There's no need to be afraid
At Christmas time
We let in light and we banish shade
And in our world of plenty
We can spread a smile of joy
Throw your arms around the world
At Christmas time

2: But say a prayer
Pray for the other ones
At Christmas time it's hard
But when you're having fun
There's a world outside your window
And it's a world of dread and fear
Where the only water flowing
Is the bitter sting of tears
And the Christmas bells that ring
There are the clanging chimes of doom
Well tonight thank God it's them instead of you

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time
Lyrics found <a href="https://www.elyrics.net/read/b/band-aid-lyrics/feed-the-world-lyrics.html">here</a>

The cause of the famine seems more to do with the Nutters in charge that failed to deal with historically low rainfall preferring to buy bullets not grain.

1983–1985 famine in Ethiopia - Wikipedia

Four Ethiopian provinces—Gojjam, Hararghe, Tigray and Wollo—all received record low rainfalls in the mid-1980s.^[21] In the south, a separate and simultaneous cause was the government's response to Oromo Liberation Front (OLF) insurgency. In 1984, President Mengistu Haile Mariam announced that 46% of the Ethiopian Gross National Product would be allocated to military spending, creating the largest standing army in sub-Saharan Africa; the allocation for health in the government budget fell from 6% in 1973–4 to 3% by 1990

[vetran]

Beta Israel, Christianity is a relative newcomer certainly to Ethiopia.

seems not

Ethiopia - Religion | Britannica

Christianity was introduced to Ethiopia in the 4th century, and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church (called Tewahdo in Ethiopia) is one of the oldest organized Christian bodies in the world.

As I said I was shocked because the story we hear (intentionally or not) is that they were recent converts thanks to Victorian missionaries.

[Zigenare]

hey they were much further forward than generally thought. I was surprised that Christianity was in Africa just after the reported death of Christ, it was slowly replaced by Islam by conquest. I assumed Victorian Christian missionaries had spread the word.

They were creating Cathedrals to rival European ones millennia ago.

You know our number system is based on the Arabic one? Our Maths on Greek & Roman etc.

Beta Israel, Christianity is a relative newcomer certainly to Ethiopia.

[Whorty]

hey they were much further forward than generally thought. I was surprised that Christianity was in Africa just after the reported death of Christ, it was slowly replaced by Islam by conquest. I assumed Victorian Christian missionaries had spread the word.

They were creating Cathedrals to rival European ones millennia ago.

You know our number system is based on the Arabic one? Our Maths on Greek & Roman etc.

This is why the Band Aid "Do they know it's Christmas" song is so cringy and patronising ..... yes, they do know it's Christmas as Ethiopia was Christian way before we were. It's a fascinating country that had one year of droughts and famine, but it's all we think about when someone mentions Ethiopia.