Reply to: Interesting addition to the conversation.

[vetran]

White folk are not the sole scapegoats, but treating those who made a fortune out of slavery as some kind of hero with statues etc we now accept is not the right thing to do either.

As per my response to Vetty's first post, I personally would hold the grandparent of the woman who he quoted as responsible for his part in slavery the same as I would anyone else, irrespective of skin colour.

That is indeed my point. However the narrative is the bad white man is the cause of slavery. An assertion that is a lie and not helpful. I believe we just need to close the book and move on. We need to solve the reasons racism remains in organisations and why certain cultures have poorer outcomes.

[Whorty]

trying to make "white" people the sole scapegoats for this vile trade is clearly ridiculous and shows a complete ignorance of history. It does nothing to foster a more peaceful society

White folk are not the sole scapegoats, but treating those who made a fortune out of slavery as some kind of hero with statues etc we now accept is not the right thing to do either.

As per my response to Vetty's first post, I personally would hold the grandparent of the woman who he quoted as responsible for his part in slavery the same as I would anyone else, irrespective of skin colour.

[Old Greg]

just sit further away from the monitor

Why? You can't catch racism over the Internet.

[mrdonuts]

Your posts with large font size certainly not helping

just sit further away from the monitor

[DoctorStrangelove]

Your posts with large font size certainly not helping

That's a very Bold comment.

[AtW]

It does nothing to foster a more peaceful society

Your posts with large font size certainly not helping

[mrdonuts]

trying to make "white" people the sole scapegoats for this vile trade is clearly ridiculous and shows a complete ignorance of history. It does nothing to foster a more peaceful society

[vetran]

I did mis-interpret what I watched, sorry. Millions in total from Africa to the Caribbean and Americas, not millions to Jamaica.

My5

It's a very interesting series

Yes enjoyed India episode should watch the rest of those.

[vetran]

Towards the end of their lives they became 'philanthropists', mainly to appease their god and pay their way into heaven. I don't think they really saw the error of their ways, and the victims of the slavery certainly didn't benefit in any way. They were still slaves in the West Indies ... now, had they used their wealth to buy out the slaves and set them up as freemen in the UK I would buy your argument mate, but no, they still did not care about the slaves, they only cared for their own 'immortal' souls.

Yes, the likes of Coulston (sic) paid for a lot in Bristol but the only beneficiaries were white - none of the black lives that suffered under slavery benefited by his actions directly.

Nice try though

You know slavery was legal then?

My understanding is that he did not feel he had committed any sin by being a slaver, he just sold some of his shares to William of Orange, had no heirs so decided to create a legacy via good works so he was remembered. Slaves were not considered equals or fellow human beings by almost all who traded in them, be they Westerners, easterners, Arabs or Africans.

By today's standards it is vile and totally unacceptable but then everyone was doing it to each other.

I look forward to statues of Marlboro & Esso executives being pulled down in 100 years.

My parents drove me round in cars without seat belts when I was a kid. Should they pay for this sin? Should car manufacturers who charged extra for seatbelts be broken up as it is now obvious making a car without a seatbelt was bordering on criminal negligence?

[Whorty]

The assertion was that "The British, for example, moved millions of people out of Africa and into Jamaica to fuel their obsession for sugar" not the total number of slaves shipped by the British to anywhere ever

I meerly pointed out that this was factually incorrect which appears to have triggered your left wing guilt for past injustices complex

I prefer to use local resources such as National Library of Jamaica rather than the BBC who are not known for their impartiality anymore

HTH

I used 3 different sources thanks And you're still wrong

I have no guilt for past injustices, but equally I'm not jingoistic about Britain's 'glory' days of Empire.

[ladymuck]

The assertion was that "The British, for example, moved millions of people out of Africa and into Jamaica to fuel their obsession for sugar" not the total number of slaves shipped by the British to anywhere ever

I meerly pointed out that this was factually incorrect which appears to have triggered your left wing guilt for past injustices complex

I prefer to use local resources such as National Library of Jamaica rather than the BBC who are not known for their impartiality anymore

HTH

I did mis-interpret what I watched, sorry. Millions in total from Africa to the Caribbean and Americas, not millions to Jamaica.

My5

It's a very interesting series

[Colour Sergeant Bourne]

Wrong. But then, given your attitude I'm guessing your 'sources' are right wing and not very accurate
Consequences of the slave trade - The triangular slave trade - KS3 History Revision - BBC Bitesize

Others suggest an even higher figure

British Involvement in the Transatlantic Slave Trade: The Abolition of Slavery Project

From government archives

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/s...-the-trade.pdf

The assertion was that "The British, for example, moved millions of people out of Africa and into Jamaica to fuel their obsession for sugar" not the total number of slaves shipped by the British to anywhere ever

I meerly pointed out that this was factually incorrect which appears to have triggered your left wing guilt for past injustices complex

I prefer to use local resources such as National Library of Jamaica rather than the BBC who are not known for their impartiality anymore

HTH

[Whorty]

Not revered perhaps, but what about those who recognised the error of their ways, repented, and used their accumulated wealth to right their wrongs and benefit the community rather than themselves? Surely recognising the error of their ways and making amends is a positive thing?

Towards the end of their lives they became 'philanthropists', mainly to appease their god and pay their way into heaven. I don't think they really saw the error of their ways, and the victims of the slavery certainly didn't benefit in any way. They were still slaves in the West Indies ... now, had they used their wealth to buy out the slaves and set them up as freemen in the UK I would buy your argument mate, but no, they still did not care about the slaves, they only cared for their own 'immortal' souls.

Yes, the likes of Coulston (sic) paid for a lot in Bristol but the only beneficiaries were white - none of the black lives that suffered under slavery benefited by his actions directly.

Nice try though

[HoofHearted]

No one who traded in humans as slaves, irrespective of their skin colour, should be looked on positively and they should not be revered in today's society.

Not revered perhaps, but what about those who recognised the error of their ways, repented, and used their accumulated wealth to right their wrongs and benefit the community rather than themselves? Surely recognising the error of their ways and making amends is a positive thing?

[Whorty]

That's an interesting figure as all the articles I have seen suggests the figure to be sub-million - between 5-600k

But using "millions" is a much more emotive statement in these interesting times

Wrong. But then, given your attitude I'm guessing your 'sources' are right wing and not very accurate

The slave trade was huge – British ships transported 2.6 million slaves.

Consequences of the slave trade - The triangular slave trade - KS3 History Revision - BBC Bitesize

Others suggest an even higher figure

Historian, Professor David Richardson, has calculated that British ships carried 3.4 million or more enslaved Africans to the Americas.

British Involvement in the Transatlantic Slave Trade: The Abolition of Slavery Project

From government archives

Britain was the most
dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British slave trade was abolished. It is estimated that Britain transported 3.1 million Africans (of whom 2.7 million arrived) to the British colonies in the Caribbean, North and South America and to other countries.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/s...-the-trade.pdf