Reply to: Are DSS people now a protected group?

[vetran]

Well, a high tax on properties that are kept empty as investments would be a start.
Then a ban (or high tax) on foreign ownership - and by “foreign” I mean not tax resident in the UK.

And maybe some long-term thinking from councils, etc, to realise that a council owned property can be a source of income over a longer period of time. (Until someone comes along and sells them off at a fraction of their value to make the numbers up)

We could also free up a lot of property if old folk didn’t live as long (or insist on living on their own, rather than with family or in care homes).
How many properties are single occupancy, or owned by those who pay little or no tax?
It’s interesting (though not surprising) to read back through this thread. Some of the implications are that it’s all the fault of foreigners. All the fault of people on any form of benefits. All the fault of whoever. But most definitely not the fault of rich investors keen to shirk responsibility and humanity in the name of profit, while paying next to no tax.

OK thanks mr Marx

If we are to have a broadly capitalist society so we can't really go round banning everyone owning stuff or forcibly evicting grannies from the family home they bought because they lived too long.

If we build enough houses foreign investors will sell theirs as the prices drop.

We are looking for causes and solutions not blame.

No reason council tax can not be applied aggressively to empty homes and maybe a whole world taxation if you own property here?

Here are some figures
Who lives in the 4.1m social homes in England and Wales? | Housing Network | The Guardian

How many tenants are in work?

Only 8% of social renters are unemployed, similar to the number found in private renting (6%). But in terms of economic activity, the difference in employment status between owner-occupiers with mortgages and social renters is stark.

• 92% of owner-occupiers with mortgages are in employment
• 41% of social renters are employed

But the reasons for the disparity aren’t immediately obvious:

• Half of economically inactive social renters are retired
• The remaining renters are full-time carers, or long-term sick or disabled

How old are they?

People in social housing are considerably older than the people in the private rented sector:

• 28% of social tenants are over 65, compared with 8% of private renters
• Only 25% of social renters are under 45, in contrast to 70% of private tenants
• Five times as many people over the age of 75 rent in the social, rather than private, sector

Are they coupled up or single?

People living in social housing are more likely to live alone, and more likely to be single parents:

• 33% of people in social housing are married or cohabiting, compared to 48% in private lets
• 17% of households in the social sector are headed by lone parents, compared with 14% comprising couples with children
• Five times as many social tenants are widowed as private tenants, reflecting the older age of most council and housing association households

Home ownership and renting in England and Wales – Detailed Characteristics - ONS

Key Points:

• Of the 23.4 million homes (or households) in England and Wales on census day in March 2011, 15 million (64 per cent) were owner occupied and 8.3 million (36 per cent) were rented.
  
• The majority (91 per cent) of owner occupied households lived in a whole house or bungalow, while for those renting, 56 per cent lived in houses while the remaining 44 per cent lived in other accommodation such as flats.
  
• The most common number of bedrooms in a home was three. However, there were twice as many owner occupied households with three or more bedrooms (74 per cent) when compared with rented households (37 per cent).
  
• Overall, two person households were the most common household size across England and Wales. However, looking only at rented accommodation, one person households were more frequent at 38 per cent.
  
• Among owner occupied households containing one person, 90 per cent lived in homes with two or more bedrooms, compared with 49 per cent of one person households in rented homes.
  
• Focusing on the household reference person (HRP) who is the oldest full-time worker in most households or a person chosen from the household based on their age and economic activity status, 76 per cent of those aged 65-74 owned their own homes - the highest across all age groups. The proportion of owner occupiers among those aged 25 to 34 has declined from 58 per cent in 2001 to 40 per cent in 2011.
  
• Looking at the employment status of HRPs, owner occupiers were more likely to be in work than those renting, at 68 per cent and 57 per cent respectively.

So social housing supports considerably more struggling people than private renting. Owner occupiers do tend to have more singles in multi room accommodation. This was before the single occupancy charge really hit so I expect the figures single occupancy with spare bedrooms to be lower in social rents now.

Note a third (8.3 million) of households rent and 3 million of those have housing benefit 4 million are social renters. so roughly 1 in 6 households are subsidised in some way. As tax take goes down and the cost goes up we can afford it less. We need to move to a model where we don't routinely subsidise the poorly paid (and their employers) or those that failed to save for retirement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47623277

[WTFH]

The stupidity is building more houses. There are plenty of houses. What it needs is a 99% tax on rental income and a ban on foreign ownership.

Well, a high tax on properties that are kept empty as investments would be a start.
Then a ban (or high tax) on foreign ownership - and by “foreign” I mean not tax resident in the UK.

And maybe some long-term thinking from councils, etc, to realise that a council owned property can be a source of income over a longer period of time. (Until someone comes along and sells them off at a fraction of their value to make the numbers up)

We could also free up a lot of property if old folk didn’t live as long (or insist on living on their own, rather than with family or in care homes).
How many properties are single occupancy, or owned by those who pay little or no tax?
It’s interesting (though not surprising) to read back through this thread. Some of the implications are that it’s all the fault of foreigners. All the fault of people on any form of benefits. All the fault of whoever. But most definitely not the fault of rich investors keen to shirk responsibility and humanity in the name of profit, while paying next to no tax.

[BrilloPad]

Badly of course, I can't fix all the stupidity!

The stupidity is building more houses. There are plenty of houses. What it needs is a 99% tax on rental income and a ban on foreign ownership.

[vetran]

Most of those being built are on flood plains. How is that going?

Badly of course, I can't fix all the stupidity!

[BrilloPad]

how to fix it? IMHO

1. Build enough houses both Private & Social.

Most of those being built are on flood plains. How is that going?

[sal]

According the bloke on R4 the other day biggest issue for landlords is that unless the incoming tenant has tangible assets (Car etc) then they have no chance to get be recompensed for rent arrears/malicious damage

Even car will be useless as security unless it's a £10k+ as debt enforcement and auction fees it will eat a couple of £1000s. Not many skint tenants with expensive non-leased cars.

Making them bankrupt for non-payment of rent will have zero effect. The ones that are sponging the system couldn't care less about their credit rating/file. It will only effect the minority who has genuinely fallen on hard times and would repay even against a "simple" CCJ

[vetran]

According the bloke on R4 the other day biggest issue for landlords is that unless the incoming tenant has tangible assets (Car etc) then they have no chance to get be recompensed for rent arrears/malicious damage

Yes they just walk away they need to be forced to repay the debt or face the consequences.

[NigelJK]

According the bloke on R4 the other day biggest issue for landlords is that unless the incoming tenant has tangible assets (Car etc) then they have no chance to get be recompensed for rent arrears/malicious damage

[vetran]

It's just you. There is no social housing due to wicked Tory austerity.

(c) The Labour Party

Indeed just look at these figures which are obviously wrong for New Lie.


What’s happening to rented social housing in England? - Full Fact

Over four million homes were rented from councils or housing associations in 2017. Of these, 1.6 million were council homes and 2.4 million were from housing associations.The amount of social housing for rent fell from the peak of around five million in the early 1980s to just under four million in the mid-2000s, but it has been slowly rising since.
This has mainly been driven by an increase in housing association homes. The proportion of all social housing provided by councils has generally been falling since the 1980s.

[Platypus]

Is it me that is finding absurd the % of households in social housing?

It's just you. There is no social housing due to wicked Tory austerity.

(c) The Labour Party

[vetran]

how to fix it? IMHO

1. Build enough houses both Private & Social.
2. Stop population growth.
3. Make social housing means tested so getting a council / HA house is not a lottery win. You get it for when you need it and the government works with you to get you better paid then out by raising your rent as your earnings increase. When you earn enough your rent is 120% of private rent.
4. Use the deposit scheme for the following (share with insurers)
a. A way to prove your right to rent - Tenant .
b. A way to prove you can legally be a landlord. (all certs stored on it).
c. Previous evictions - Tenant
d. Previous evictions - landlord
e. Previous upheld repairs failures.
5. Lock up anyone who rents without using the deposit scheme.
6. Where evicting because of non payment of rent, render tenant bankrupt.
7. Have an annual dwelling condition inspection by a Surveyor (RICS) or similar who lists any defects and records on the system. The landlord has X days to resolve. You can also use a suitable surveyor to identify fault in damp etc. situation. ~ £250 a year. Do EPC etc at the same time, offer grants (against tax paid) to make dwellings more efficient.

[KinooOrKinog]

I vaguely remember something about that.

Even if rent is paid for the upcoming month, rather than the month just passed, it surely couldn't be that difficult to do something like the reporting on bank accounts where your credit report shows that your account has been operated within its limits. Late payments and arrears would then show up and give a good health check indicator.

Rent is always paid in advance though, not arrears. When you move in you pay your deposit plus one month's rent. It's not credit which why it's not on your credit file I suppose, unless you default maybe.

[vetran]

If councils are allowed to again borrow money to build homes, it will be cheaper for them to build houses and blocks of flats instead of subsidising rent for private tenancies. Definitely cheaper than replacing stock sold via right to buy, by buying at market prices.

The building cost of a flat is about £50k and there is plenty of land even inside M25 to build them on.

Instead they are forced to do some weird shipping containers and office building conversions to accommodate the 10'000s who instead of relocating to a cheaper areas of the country insist on their right to live in their "ancestral lands" in London.

Three good points.

Councils/Housing associations not able to build.

Cost versus value is much lower.

Tenants want to stay in premium areas meaning the effects of capitalism are negated, wages don't rise because the government subsidises accommodation.

We are now building 247,000 new dwellings a year enough for housing the expanding population but nowhere near enough to attack the 3 million plus deficit. Its not going to be fixed any time soon.

Universal credit resets the preference to have rent paid to the Landlord breaking agreements and fails to provide continuity and are certain to cause arrears.

Tenants are advised to get evicted if they want a council house.

[sal]

If councils are allowed to again borrow money to build homes, it will be cheaper for them to build houses and blocks of flats instead of subsidising rent for private tenancies. Definitely cheaper than replacing stock sold via right to buy, by buying at market prices.

The building cost of a flat is about £50k and there is plenty of land even inside M25 to build them on.

Instead they are forced to do some weird shipping containers and office building conversions to accommodate the 10'000s who instead of relocating to a cheaper areas of the country insist on their right to live in their "ancestral lands" in London.

[vetran]

Maybe he knows the secret to the Tory magic money tree.

Its easy they stole it from Labour's magic money forest!