Reply to: Social mobility and class

[vetran]

Almost pity you. Almost.

Urban Dictionary: spooter

[SueEllen]

Sounds like you lot to me

That's cos you are inbred.

[PhiltheGreek]

All the definitions are generally the same

Working Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
" being paid only for the hours or days that they work

The working class usually react/reacts in a predictable way to government policies."

Sounds like you lot to me

[scooterscot]

Almost pity you. Almost.

[shaunbhoy]

Cambridge dictionary may need to update their definitions.

They've updated their definition of a clueless twunt that makes sweeping generalisations about a whole rack of topics that he is breathtakingly under-equipped to comment upon.

Such a muttonhead is now known as a "scooterscot"

HTH

[jds 1981]

social class | Definition, Theories, & Facts | Britannica.com

See portion "Characteristics Of The Principal Classes" which makes a reasonable attempt (although I'd suggest still far from perfect)

[jds 1981]

I'd suggest that class consists of a mix of:-
Historical level of family privilege
Cultural interests/activities
Employment type
Social interests/activities

Dictionaries probably fail at nuance.
Wikipedia seems very American based on this subject

[scooterscot]

"The working class usually react/reacts in a predictable way to government policies". WTF does that actually mean?

Government reduces stamp duty middle classes fill their BTL boots believing they're in the money.

[meridian]

Did you ever think about trying Google search "Working Class Definition"

Of course. The definitions are inconclusive and full of tautologies, hence the question to the wider audience.

From Wikipedia

The working class (or labouring class) comprises those engaged in waged or salaried labour, especially in manual-labour occupations and industrial work.[2] Working-class occupations (see also "Designation of workers by collar color") include blue-collar jobs, some white-collar jobs, and most pink-collar jobs. Members of the working class rely for their income exclusively upon their earnings from wage labour; thus, according to the more inclusive definitions, the category can include almost all of the working population of industrialized economies, as well as those employed in the urban areas (cities, towns, villages) of non-industrialized economies or in the rural workforce.

In Marxist theory and socialist literature, the term working class is often used interchangeably with the term proletariat and includes all workers who expend both physical and mental labour (salaried knowledge workers and white-collar workers) to produce economic value for the owners of the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marxist literature).[3]

All the definitions are generally the same

Working Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
"a social group that consists of people who earn little money, often being paid only for the hours or days that they work, and who usually do physical work:

The working class usually react/reacts in a predictable way to government policies."

Middle Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
"UK a social group that consists of well-educated people, such as doctors, lawyers, and teachers, who have good jobs and are not poor, but are not very rich:

The upper middle class tend to go into business or the professions, becoming, for example, lawyers, doctors, or accountants."

Upper Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
" a social group consisting of the people who have the highest social rank and who are usually rich:

The upper classes usually send their children to expensive private schools."

The first definition you've provided says income exclusively from wage labour (including salaried knowledge workers), but nothing about level of earnings, but your second one says "little money". The two definitions are incompatible. In the first definition, salaried IT workers would be considered "working class", but not in the second (if they earn enough - "earning enough" not being defined....)

Where does the Pimlico Plumber fit in the Cambridge definitions? He's a plumber, tradies aren't on their short list of "well-educated", but he's also fairly well off. Is he excluded from "working class" due to his wealth, and also excluded from "middle class" due to his trade?

"The working class usually react/reacts in a predictable way to government policies". WTF does that actually mean?

[scooterscot]

The upper classes usually send their children to expensive private schools."

Know many amongst my fraternity who send their spawn to expensive private schools and it is clear they're running their health into the ground trying to keep up with the Jones. Even the Jones are looking burnt out. Even then the said school life is not of benefit to all who attend. Some have special needs, which just causes more stress. But that's the way the South West rolls. Spend spend spend like they've got loadsa money when the reality couldn't be further from the truth.

Cambridge dictionary may need to update their definitions.

[NigelJK]

These days it is normally anyone who is a potential Labour voter.

[Yorkie62]

Sounds like an an American view on class.

All the definitions are generally the same

Working Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
"a social group that consists of people who earn little money, often being paid only for the hours or days that they work, and who usually do physical work:

The working class usually react/reacts in a predictable way to government policies."

Middle Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
"UK a social group that consists of well-educated people, such as doctors, lawyers, and teachers, who have good jobs and are not poor, but are not very rich:

The upper middle class tend to go into business or the professions, becoming, for example, lawyers, doctors, or accountants."

Upper Class Cambridge Dictionary defiinition
" a social group consisting of the people who have the highest social rank and who are usually rich:

The upper classes usually send their children to expensive private schools."

[jds 1981]

Did you ever think about trying Google search "Working Class Definition"

From Wikipedia

The working class (or labouring class) comprises those engaged in waged or salaried labour, especially in manual-labour occupations and industrial work.[2] Working-class occupations (see also "Designation of workers by collar color") include blue-collar jobs, some white-collar jobs, and most pink-collar jobs. Members of the working class rely for their income exclusively upon their earnings from wage labour; thus, according to the more inclusive definitions, the category can include almost all of the working population of industrialized economies, as well as those employed in the urban areas (cities, towns, villages) of non-industrialized economies or in the rural workforce.

In Marxist theory and socialist literature, the term working class is often used interchangeably with the term proletariat and includes all workers who expend both physical and mental labour (salaried knowledge workers and white-collar workers) to produce economic value for the owners of the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marxist literature).[3]

Sounds like an an American view on class.

[Yorkie62]

Sure, if you like. Looking down on people doesn’t make the lookees working class, though, it only says more about you.

It’s a genuine question, which I thought someone on here might at least have an attempt at. What makes someone “working class”?

Personally, my Dad left school with no qualifications, finished his trade in the 60s as a mechanic, worked for a while in the family trade (saw milling) and then retrained in his late 30s as a drainlayer. Yet I’ve never seen ourselves as “working class”.

From what you say, as long as there’s someone to look down upon then you’re not working class?

Did you ever think about trying Google search "Working Class Definition"

From Wikipedia

The working class (or labouring class) comprises those engaged in waged or salaried labour, especially in manual-labour occupations and industrial work.[2] Working-class occupations (see also "Designation of workers by collar color") include blue-collar jobs, some white-collar jobs, and most pink-collar jobs. Members of the working class rely for their income exclusively upon their earnings from wage labour; thus, according to the more inclusive definitions, the category can include almost all of the working population of industrialized economies, as well as those employed in the urban areas (cities, towns, villages) of non-industrialized economies or in the rural workforce.

In Marxist theory and socialist literature, the term working class is often used interchangeably with the term proletariat and includes all workers who expend both physical and mental labour (salaried knowledge workers and white-collar workers) to produce economic value for the owners of the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marxist literature).[3]

[meridian]

oh we look down on you

Sure, if you like. Looking down on people doesn’t make the lookees working class, though, it only says more about you.

It’s a genuine question, which I thought someone on here might at least have an attempt at. What makes someone “working class”?

Personally, my Dad left school with no qualifications, finished his trade in the 60s as a mechanic, worked for a while in the family trade (saw milling) and then retrained in his late 30s as a drainlayer. Yet I’ve never seen ourselves as “working class”.

From what you say, as long as there’s someone to look down upon then you’re not working class?