Reply to: Shocked, Shocked I tell you

[BlasterBates]

With no free movement of people, they will not be able to cross borders so easily.

between 30 and 40 million people visit the UK each year from all over the world, that aint going to change. With no information from Europol how will they know to distinguish genuine visitors from criminals crossing borders. At least they can do that now.

[Yorkie62]

Cutting off co-operation with Europol will enhance the ability of the police to stop these criminals hopping across borders ?

With no free movement of people, they will not be able to cross borders so easily.

[BlasterBates]

The point I was making was that it was crime of opportunity. People see a target, feel they can get away with it and they do. i.e. most crime is local because the criminals are frequently too lazy or occupied with their issues to commute. My friends had no money they were a poor target but they were convenient as their burglars lived upstairs or across the road.

The point in the article is that the high end criminals are commuting cross continent and we are failing to police it. Combine that with us not checking new arrivals criminal history in their home country means more people who want to hurt us are getting through. I think that is just basic governance protecting the people.

Cutting off co-operation with Europol will enhance the ability of the police to stop these criminals hopping across borders ?

[darmstadt]

It does reflect the headline. You need to read the article to understand it. If you can only manage the short words then ask for help.

No it doesn't.

[NotAllThere]

...
4. Idiots who permit this are normally Guardian readers or remoaners!...

I think you'll find they're called "The British Government".

[vetran]

So it sounds like we're largely agreed that immigration isn't 'bad' and that the DM (in particular) chooses to highlight the negatives rather than the positives?

Drugs is a different issue, and one that I unfortunately have more familiarity with than I'd like - but it is not restricted to 'council estates'. I think drug dependency and associated crime is largely 'local' so difficult to see the relevance in this discussion. I don't believe addicts in their hundreds/thousands are flocking to the UK for an easy fix.

The point I was making was that it was crime of opportunity. People see a target, feel they can get away with it and they do. i.e. most crime is local because the criminals are frequently too lazy or occupied with their issues to commute. My friends had no money they were a poor target but they were convenient as their burglars lived upstairs or across the road.

The point in the article is that the high end criminals are commuting cross continent and we are failing to police it. Combine that with us not checking new arrivals criminal history in their home country means more people who want to hurt us are getting through. I think that is just basic governance protecting the people.

[mudskipper]

1. So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? -no this is why I used myself as an example. Its a logical solution to an issue I would have.

2. There are problems with immigration - yes and its the government's job to fix it. I don't believe immigration is bad, I do believe it needs managing. Every time someone suggests this then they are accused of being racist. That needs to change.

3. but to blame immigrants for crime - no most are great, as I said I found the stats surprising,most people I know who worked abroad, they were the most law abiding people anywhere. Therefore there must be pockets of trouble we need to fix.

4.Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals. - 80% of crime is committed by UK born. Many years ago some friends lived on a council estate, poor as church mice, almost every week their telly (bought from CEX and the cheapest they had) was stolen to pay for a drug fix. Most crime is one of opportunity.

So it sounds like we're largely agreed that immigration isn't 'bad' and that the DM (in particular) chooses to highlight the negatives rather than the positives?

Drugs is a different issue, and one that I unfortunately have more familiarity with than I'd like - but it is not restricted to 'council estates'. I think drug dependency and associated crime is largely 'local' so difficult to see the relevance in this discussion. I don't believe addicts in their hundreds/thousands are flocking to the UK for an easy fix.

[vetran]

So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? We get some, we lose some. The problem is with assuming that immigration is the problem. There are problems with immigration, but to blame immigrants for crime is not backed up by stats. There probably are certain demographics of immigrants that are more likely to commit crime, just as there are more likely demographics of 'Brits' that commit crime. Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals.

1. So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? -no this is why I used myself as an example. Its a logical solution to an issue I would have.

2. There are problems with immigration - yes and its the government's job to fix it. I don't believe immigration is bad, I do believe it needs managing. Every time someone suggests this then they are accused of being racist. That needs to change.

3. but to blame immigrants for crime - no most are great, as I said I found the stats surprising,most people I know who worked abroad, they were the most law abiding people anywhere. Therefore there must be pockets of trouble we need to fix.

4.Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals. - 80% of crime is committed by UK born. Many years ago some friends lived on a council estate, poor as church mice, almost every week their telly (bought from CEX and the cheapest they had) was stolen to pay for a drug fix. Most crime is one of opportunity.

[mudskipper]

The daily Mail is indeed controversial, it is intentionally its the "Naked Attraction" & "Jeremy Kyle" of the papers.

I don't believe behaviour is decided solely by Genetics. I do believe Behaviour is decided by multiple factors. I do believe it is a minority of our new friends.

1. If I were a wanted man in my country I would try to move to a different country.
2. If I have already broken the law seriously in my original country I am unlikely to behave myself in my new country.
3. Therefore I am pulled towards a new country and pushed from my own, If I can find a country where I am paid a rock star salary (in my terms) for clearing tables which is unlikely to check my criminal record at home (6% checking in Manchester) I'm going there.
4. Idiots who permit this are normally Guardian readers or remoaners!
5. People who are saddened by this are called Vetran.

So, as a British "wanted man" would you do different? We get some, we lose some. The problem is with assuming that immigration is the problem. There are problems with immigration, but to blame immigrants for crime is not backed up by stats. There probably are certain demographics of immigrants that are more likely to commit crime, just as there are more likely demographics of 'Brits' that commit crime. Certainly round my way most of the nuisance crime is committed by locals.

[vetran]

So you agree that the DM just publishes bollocks? Surely the article should reflect the headline or doesn't that matter?

It does reflect the headline. You need to read the article to understand it. If you can only manage the short words then ask for help.

[darmstadt]

what facts are you looking for? Its a newspaper article not a research project.

So you agree that the DM just publishes bollocks? Surely the article should reflect the headline or doesn't that matter?

[vetran]

I think that's the problem. The Daily Mail (as I'm sure you've realised) is devoted to whipping up anti-immigrant rhetoric.

There are good people, normal people, scumbags in all nationalities

There are different classes of crime, manipulating Libor rates doesn't attract the same hatred as stealing and selling mobile phones, but probably (per criminal) has a far greater impact.

But where you come from appears to have no real difference on whether you're likely to commit a crime or not. So what's the DM's agenda?

The daily Mail is indeed controversial, it is intentionally its the "Naked Attraction" & "Jeremy Kyle" of the papers.

I don't believe behaviour is decided solely by Genetics. I do believe Behaviour is decided by multiple factors. I do believe it is a minority of our new friends.

1. If I were a wanted man in my country I would try to move to a different country.
2. If I have already broken the law seriously in my original country I am unlikely to behave myself in my new country.
3. Therefore I am pulled towards a new country and pushed from my own, If I can find a country where I am paid a rock star salary (in my terms) for clearing tables which is unlikely to check my criminal record at home (6% checking in Manchester) I'm going there.
4. Idiots who permit this are normally Guardian readers or remoaners!
5. People who are saddened by this are called Vetran.

[vetran]

Jesus wept! I berate the quality of stats and you come back with more stats. I think you will find the crime rate is dropping because police forces are reclassifying crime or simply not recording it. It is common for police to not even visit the scene of a house break.

Sexual assault has been on a steep increase, but somehow you aren't interested. Not surprising as the state seems little concerned with it either.

you don't think its because our new countrymen are more likely to have gone to university like our youngsters?

[vetran]

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/daily...y-be-censured/

https://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...ate-eu-stories

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/pro...b_4701685.html

A bit old but I've seen a newer one which is worse:

Damn I just found out this wasn't Voltaire, pity because it makes a lot of sense in this case

"To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?"

It was an american far right nutter, a good quote ruined!

As usual you are in control of half the facts, its not who complains but who is upheld after proper process. From the Bowel of the left and based on publicly published fact. Sorry boys its not gibberish & prejudice you strung together so you probably won't agree to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...n-2015-by-ipso

In fact, according to Ipso’s annual report for 2015, the worst offender was News UK, publisher of the Sun, Times and Sunday Times. It was responsible for the press regulator upholding 11 complaints in the course of last year.

Incidentally, of that number, the Times had most (five) - including two interesting cases, here and here) - while the Sun had three, the Scottish Sun one, and the Sunday Times, two.



In second place, with 10 upheld complaints, was Northern & Shell, publisher of the Express and Star titles plus celebrity magazines. Of those, four were against the Daily Express, one was against the Sunday Express and one involved the Express website. The others were the Daily Star (three) and the Daily Star Sunday (one).

In joint third place, with nine upheld complaints, were the Telegraph Media Group and Trinity Mirror.

Since I’m sure you are wondering, Associated’s total was a mere two. Yes, Ipso’s complaints committee ruled only twice against the Daily Mail (here and here).

sorry can't make it flash


Another nobrainer outwitted by statistics!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...010_to_present

[TwoWolves]

Crime is lower than it was in the 1990's

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...wales/june2017

...and that is with a rise in the population. The reason for that is the proportion of foreigners has risen, so making Britain a safer place,

Jesus wept! I berate the quality of stats and you come back with more stats. I think you will find the crime rate is dropping because police forces are reclassifying crime or simply not recording it. It is common for police to not even visit the scene of a house break.

Sexual assault has been on a steep increase, but somehow you aren't interested. Not surprising as the state seems little concerned with it either.