Reply to: The EU and posted workers rights

[BlasterBates]

And when you do see Mercs, they're very old ones...

He made it up and they all cheered.

[original PM]

Is that because there were caveats attached to any money lent that forced anyone to buy those products?

Or is it just possible that those companies don’t make tulip products that fall apart after a couple of years?

I would imagine the former -- not that anyone will ever admit it.

[darmstadt]

Have you been to Greece? The taxi drivers are all driving Mercedes (it seems that wherever I go in Europe the taxis are Mercedes). All of the trains are made by Siemens. Deutsche Telecom has installed a quite fantastic mobile phone network. E.ON has set up power generation plants.........

The EU lent Greece the money to buy all this stuff from Germany. Greece ended up bankrupt, Germans are doing very well thank you.

And when you do see Mercs, they're very old ones...

[meridian]

Have you been to Greece? The taxi drivers are all driving Mercedes (it seems that wherever I go in Europe the taxis are Mercedes). All of the trains are made by Siemens. Deutsche Telecom has installed a quite fantastic mobile phone network. E.ON has set up power generation plants.........

The EU lent Greece the money to buy all this stuff from Germany. Greece ended up bankrupt, Germans are doing very well thank you.

Is that because there were caveats attached to any money lent that forced anyone to buy those products?

Or is it just possible that those companies don’t make tulip products that fall apart after a couple of years?

[HugeWhale]

This debate is rather facile if work can be done for the half the price elsewhere, it will be. By allowing some offshoring and bringing in some temporary staff from time to time you can save the jobs you still have.

Germany doesn't have a problem, they all earn 20% more than in the UK and no-one is being sacked.

The question the self appointed Economists who have all the answers need to ask themselves, is why ?

Have you been to Greece? The taxi drivers are all driving Mercedes (it seems that wherever I go in Europe the taxis are Mercedes). All of the trains are made by Siemens. Deutsche Telecom has installed a quite fantastic mobile phone network. E.ON has set up power generation plants.........

The EU lent Greece the money to buy all this stuff from Germany. Greece ended up bankrupt, Germans are doing very well thank you.

[darmstadt]

The Conservative MEP contingent in the EP abstained from voting for this in order to derail the bill, does that tell you something?

[BlasterBates]

This debate is rather facile if work can be done for the half the price elsewhere, it will be. By allowing some offshoring and bringing in some temporary staff from time to time you can save the jobs you still have.

Germany doesn't have a problem, they all earn 20% more than in the UK and no-one is being sacked.

The question the self appointed Economists who have all the answers need to ask themselves, is why ?

[DaveB]

You've just proved my point, they will no longer be competitive on price. Which removes their main advantage.

Wasn't actually responding to anything you said, was replying to OPM who was saying it wasn't an issue as you couldn't pay below minimum wage anyway, when in fact the overseas guys can. And the UK actually vetoed changing it so that couldn't happen back in the '90s.

[Mordac]

Quite easy actually. Posted workers are paid at the same rate they would have got in their home country, and are paid in their home country in their own currency so could quite easily be below minimum wage in their host country. So an Eastern European construction or engineering company bids for a piece of work on a larger project in the UK and posts it's own workers here, alongside those of the main contractor, at half the wages a UK based company would have to pay it's workers.

The UK and Portugal voted against basing pay on workers rights in the host country back in the late '90s, which would have fixed the problem.

You've just proved my point, they will no longer be competitive on price. Which removes their main advantage.

[sasguru]

They're still in the EU and they're still in the Euro, why ?

The answer will be obvious to anyone who visited Greece in the 70s.

[sasguru]

From the same article:

"Eight years of recession left the economy 25pc smaller than it was before the twin blows of the credit crunch and Greece’s debt crisis."

and

"Under current plans, the OECD estimates Greek national debt will fall to around 120pc of GDP in 20 years’ time – still a substantial burden – before rising once more to almost 140pc by 2060."

Oh and wages down by 35%.

Greece is in perpetual servitude - 2% growth or otherwise.

Yes of course Greece didn't go on a complete debt-fuelled splurge between 2002 and 2008 with civil servants retiring at 50, 13th month income for selected public sector workers etc. etc.
With every party comes a hangover.
And they could have left in 2015, the Germans invited them to after they threatened to leave but when it came to the crunch they decided they were better off in after all.
They were probably right to stay in and take their medicine, Greek growth this year will be > than UK

[BlasterBates]

From the same article:

"Eight years of recession left the economy 25pc smaller than it was before the twin blows of the credit crunch and Greece’s debt crisis."

and

"Under current plans, the OECD estimates Greek national debt will fall to around 120pc of GDP in 20 years’ time – still a substantial burden – before rising once more to almost 140pc by 2060."

Oh and wages down by 35%.

Greece is in perpetual servitude - 2% growth or otherwise.

They're still in the EU and they're still in the Euro, why ?

[darmstadt]

https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Arbei...e20455564.html

And if you can't read it, this might explain why:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...te-say-experts

[The_Equalizer]

That must have been a difficult article for the telegraph to write!

Greece escapes a financial tragedy

From the same article:

"Eight years of recession left the economy 25pc smaller than it was before the twin blows of the credit crunch and Greece’s debt crisis."

and

"Under current plans, the OECD estimates Greek national debt will fall to around 120pc of GDP in 20 years’ time – still a substantial burden – before rising once more to almost 140pc by 2060."

Oh and wages down by 35%.

Greece is in perpetual servitude - 2% growth or otherwise.

[original PM]

That must have been a difficult article for the telegraph to write!

Greece escapes a financial tragedy






Really is hilarious. I bet Greece is somehow more productive with employment at 21% than the UK is at 4%. The Greek economy is actually growing faster than the UK with fewer people employed - That's damning.

Sooner Corbyn gets in and turns the country full left the sooner the UK can enjoy brighter prospects.

Un employment is at 21% which is apparently better than the UK's 4%? Ok then...


Oooh but is it summer? is it the holiday period?

Is this a case of a country who has one if it's main income generators being tourism finding that during the tourist season the economy picks up and unemployment goes down?