Reply to: Well done Iceland

[original PM]

I don't agree with that either. At that age the child is unlikely to really understand what it is they are doing, more likely to be parents forcing their will on their offspring.

OK have a conversation with a 2 year old about putting gold shiney things in their ears and being a princess.

Then have a chat with a six year old boy about the skin on the end of his dick.

Actually don't do the second one you will probably be arrested.

[grabri]

How do you feel about ear piercings on 2 year olds (and younger) then?

I don't agree with that either. At that age the child is unlikely to really understand what it is they are doing, more likely to be parents forcing their will on their offspring.

[original PM]

Well if the child wants them fine otherwise no.

However the difference is that earrings are decorative and pretty and a two year old can understand that.

Chopping the skin on the end of your dick off because a sky fairy told your parents to do it is somewhat more confusing.

[meridian]

It's mutilation without individual consent.

When that consent is given, for whatever reason, fine. Otherwise a law to prosecute those that would harm others is logical in my book.

How do you feel about ear piercings on 2 year olds (and younger) then?

[scooterscot]

It's mutilation without individual consent.

When that consent is given, for whatever reason, fine. Otherwise a law to prosecute those that would harm others is logical in my book.

[Mordac]

In your opinion. Ask Jews what they want. We're in danger of practising the tyranny of the majority.

How many would be willing to sign up to having it done at bar-mitzvah time? Thought not...

[greenlake]

It's not mutilation. At least not according to the dictionary. It's a trivial operation.

But sometimes, it's just so inconvenient....

[grabri]

Female circumcision causes massive health issues for women and should be entirely eradicated. It is of an entirely different order to male circumcision. As for branding and tattoos - which cultures do this?

Female v Male circumcision I entirely agree - not trying to equate the two. Just trying to figure out what degree of mutilation is acceptable to those that are advocates of male circumcision and who makes that decision?

[NotAllThere]

I concede that it may be more of a cultural convention than a religious on - doesn't make it right though.

So where would you like to draw the line - male circumcision is OK? female circumcision? branding? facial tattoos?

Female circumcision causes massive health issues for women and should be entirely eradicated. It is of an entirely different order to male circumcision. As for branding and tattoos - which cultures do this?

[grabri]

I concede that it may be more of a cultural convention than a religious one - doesn't make it right though.

So where would you like to draw the line - male circumcision is OK? female circumcision? branding? facial tattoos?

[d000hg]

It's not mutilation. At least not according to the dictionary. It's a trivial operation.

[NotAllThere]

My point isn't about how painful that it is. It's about parents that mutilate their children in the name of religion.

Since secular Jews and non-believing Jews often circumcise their kids, it's rather in the name of culture, rather than religion.

[grabri]

But having it done at 16/18 is a major thing. I know someone who had it done for medical reasons as an adult. For a baby it's not barbaric or traumatic. They have no recollection of it.

My point isn't about how painful that it is. It's about parents that mutilate their children in the name of religion.

[d000hg]

...unless, it's done for medical reasons...?

But that's like bringing up the incest/rape argument when talking about abortion... it's a tiny subset of cases that should be viewed separately, not used to argue for the general case.

[b0redom]

It's a barbaric practice really that serves no purpose.

...unless, it's done for medical reasons...?