Reply to: world faces antibiotic apocalypse

[Lance]

Either that or death from smallpox.

You pays your money you take your risk.

It wasn't a universally popular strategy. It did work though, particularly it was done to healthy people rather than poorly people.
If you get enough people then herd immunity starts to help.

[SueEllen]

That's innoculation rather than vaccination.

Before Jenner realised that Cowpox worked as a vaccination for Smallpox people used to innoculate with actual smallpox

They'd take the pus from a smallpox sore, and inject (when I say inject it wasn't syringes it was big fecking knives) it into a part of the body you didn't mind scaring (arms and legs mainly).

/pedant

Either that or death from smallpox.

You pays your money you take your risk.

[Lance]

Effectively, yes. Many vaccines work by giving the patient a weakened or dead dose of the disease.

That's innoculation rather than vaccination.

Before Jenner realised that Cowpox worked as a vaccination for Smallpox people used to innoculate with actual smallpox

They'd take the pus from a smallpox sore, and inject (when I say inject it wasn't syringes it was big fecking knives) it into a part of the body you didn't mind scaring (arms and legs mainly).

/pedant

[Hobosapien]

More media hype. I linked to a proper discussion earlier. What you don't hear about are the advances in broad-spectrum AB's. These are (for the media mad) 'the last line of defence', but are actually very sophisticated pharmaceuticals, with the research to back it up. You won't ever here of them unless you've been to an ITU as a patient.

I know from experience, watching House M.D., that broad spectrum ABs never cured anyone.

[NigelJK]

More media hype. I linked to a proper discussion earlier. What you don't hear about are the advances in broad-spectrum AB's. These are (for the media mad) 'the last line of defence', but are actually very sophisticated pharmaceuticals, with the research to back it up. You won't ever here of them unless you've been to an ITU as a patient.

[NotAllThere]

So when they say vaccinate they mean give them TB.

Effectively, yes. Many vaccines work by giving the patient a weakened or dead dose of the disease.

And yes on the one hand, there are tests that are more expensive that can tell the difference. On the other hand, for the export market, that's a non-starter. The buyers will just get clean cows from elsewhere. On the gripping hand, we won't have an export market for much longer, so we might as well vaccinate the cows now.

[SueEllen]

They can do a test and vaccinate the ones with negative tests, but all these procedures to control the disease are more expensive. Cutting on vaccines it's a plan to reduce costs, the same in humans. Giving up the TB vaccine in humans assuming that the people don't travel it's stupid.

In the UK health care is done on a cost risk analysis.

Hence it was worked out unless you came from certain communities it wasn't cost effective to vaccinate you against TB as you were unlikely to get it. Plus it doesn't work for the type of TB the majority of adults get.

On the other hand it is cost effective to give certain other people with weakened immune systems antibiotics if they get what looks like a bacterial infection, as it is cheaper in keeping them out of hospital where they will be given stronger more broad spectrum IV antibiotics.

[Bee]

AIUI the reason for not vaccinating cattle is that it's not possible to tell the difference between a vaccinated cow and an infected one.

They can do a test and vaccinate the ones with negative tests, but all these procedures to control the disease are more expensive. Cutting on vaccines it's a plan to reduce costs, the same in humans. Giving up the TB vaccine in humans assuming that the people don't travel it's stupid.

[Hobosapien]

AIUI the reason for not vaccinating cattle is that it's not possible to tell the difference between a vaccinated cow and an infected one.

So when they say vaccinate they mean give them TB.

Though if the UK population were vaccinated against TB then what difference does it make if the cattle have a 'bit of a cough'?

[BR14]

AIUI the reason for not vaccinating cattle is that it's not possible to tell the difference between an immigrant cow and a UK citizen.

FTFY

[NotAllThere]

Yet there's a massive badger cull ongoing. Bovine TB in your milk and beef.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...0-animals-shot

Seems the cull is more expensive than vaccinating the cattle.

Maybe they'll start culling the sick humans instead of vaccinating them too.

AIUI the reason for not vaccinating cattle is that it's not possible to tell the difference between a vaccinated cow and an infected one.

[SueEllen]

Yes, but are they immigrant dogs and cats?

I asked 3 cats and a dog.

2 of the cats just glared at me and stalked away, while one rubbed against me until I stroked his stomach. The dog just barked and ran in circles.

[Bee]

Yes, but are they immigrant dogs and cats?

[Hobosapien]

Indeed forgot that, the risk in the UK was so low we stopped vaccinating

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ools.education

Yet there's a massive badger cull ongoing. Bovine TB in your milk and beef.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...0-animals-shot

Seems the cull is more expensive than vaccinating the cattle.

Maybe they'll start culling the sick humans instead of vaccinating them too.

[NotAllThere]

Yes, but are they immigrant dogs and cats?