Originally posted by Bee
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Reply to: Catalonia
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Previously on "Catalonia"
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They are planning to trigger the article 155 that will suspend the Catalonia autonomy.
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Originally posted by Bean View PostWell I agree with the list/flow - the only thing missing - is the formal removal of autonomy from the region by the Spanish gov (as allowed for in the constitution), when a region unilaterally declares indy.
How the Catalans react to THAT, will be very interesting and that's when the talks will have to step up - as I envisage the region that contributes ~20% of GDP, will be v quick to strike to make themselves heard
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Originally posted by northernladyuk View PostA win is a win, if free and fair. But there's been no opportunity to hold such a vote. The logical flow that is being taken is:
- Self determination for a people is a right
- It should be realised through a free and fair plebiscite
- The Spanish constitution forbids this and the Spanish government and state frustrate it
- A free and fair plebiscite will be held in spite of the Spanish constitution
- A free and fair plebiscite held in spite of the Spanish constitution has been disrupted by the violence of Spanish paramilitary police
- The outcome of that disrupted plebiscite is the best possible reflection of the will of the Catalan people, given the circumstances
- The Catalan parliament will hold a vote to decide on independence, in spite of the Spanish constitution (which frustrates self determination, see above)
- The Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliament
- The Catalan parliament treats the will of the Catalan people as a higher authority and will meet anyway
- The Catalan parliament declares independence
And then they see how it plays out. The great tragedy (or one of them) is that a free and fair referendum probably would have failed. It may not be too late for the Spanish government to organise an advisory plebiscite to determine the will of the Catalan people. But I doubt they have the mindset for that. They'll continue to screw it up.
How the Catalans react to THAT, will be very interesting and that's when the talks will have to step up - as I envisage the region that contributes ~20% of GDP, will be v quick to strike to make themselves heard
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Originally posted by BlasterBates View PostAll Spain has to do is freeze their bank accounts and then they're f***ed.
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostIt's the final sanction when you rebels/secessionists/revolutionaries say to a government "Yeah? You and whose army?".
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Originally posted by northernladyuk View PostIs Spain going to send its army in?
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Originally posted by Bean View PostWhat if it had succeeded, at say 52:48 ?
Are the supreme court just going to ban all future sessions (effectively removing autonomy) or just this week I wonder?
- Self determination for a people is a right
- It should be realised through a free and fair plebiscite
- The Spanish constitution forbids this and the Spanish government and state frustrate it
- A free and fair plebiscite will be held in spite of the Spanish constitution
- A free and fair plebiscite held in spite of the Spanish constitution has been disrupted by the violence of Spanish paramilitary police
- The outcome of that disrupted plebiscite is the best possible reflection of the will of the Catalan people, given the circumstances
- The Catalan parliament will hold a vote to decide on independence, in spite of the Spanish constitution (which frustrates self determination, see above)
- The Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliament
- The Catalan parliament treats the will of the Catalan people as a higher authority and will meet anyway
- The Catalan parliament declares independence
And then they see how it plays out. The great tragedy (or one of them) is that a free and fair referendum probably would have failed. It may not be too late for the Spanish government to organise an advisory plebiscite to determine the will of the Catalan people. But I doubt they have the mindset for that. They'll continue to screw it up.
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All Spain has to do is freeze their bank accounts and then they're f***ed.
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Originally posted by northernladyuk View PostIs Spain going to send its army in?
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostDoes Catalan have an army?
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Originally posted by northernladyuk View PostSo the Spanish supreme court has suspended the Catalan parliamentary session. The Catalan government doesn't recognise this and will press ahead with a declaration of independence debate on Monday. Meanwhile capital flight is reportedly underway and businesses are looking to move headquarters from Catalonia.
Really should have allowed the vote to go ahead and fall short of a majority...
Are the supreme court just going to ban all future sessions (effectively removing autonomy) or just this week I wonder?
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