Reply to: Contracting at death's door?

[m0n1k3r]

Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

Unfortunately around 95% of all (UK) contractors think about themselves as just "wanting a job" - e.g. temp staff, but with tax benefits. And of the 5% remaining, few in the UK are willing to work against an SOW with invoicing after delivery or in instalments and 30+ days (75+ is more of the norm) payment terms.

[m0n1k3r]

I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

I have the benefit of being part of a group with companies in a number of countries, mainly in the EU. Losing EU citizenship will complicate matters quite a bit for UK contractors.

[m0n1k3r]

I'm far richer than my better half. I have the capital mainly, we earn about the same.

Then move to Belgium. No CGT.

[Elliegirl]

I've been contracting for getting on 10 years (nothing compared to many here) and since day 1 of joining CUK, people have been prophesying the end of contracting.

It might grow and shrink over time depending on the economy, government policy, etc, but the contracting market simply isn't going anywhere. Make sure you're good and don't fritter away your war-chest!

[d000hg]

I've been contracting for getting on 10 years (nothing compared to many here) and since day 1 of joining CUK, people have been prophesying the end of contracting.

It might grow and shrink over time depending on the economy, government policy, etc, but the contracting market simply isn't going anywhere. Make sure you're good and don't fritter away your war-chest!

[Andy Hallett]

Fair response.

I think it would greatly enhance the sector to move to 'Statement of Works agreements' as you say but from my experience of contracting over the past decade, the number of both clients and agencies who have been prepared to work to this model have been few and far between in part due to the fact that it takes a lot more work for all concerned.

Our clients are the ones driving this to be fair, as you say it's more work, and also more risk, but with risk comes reward.

Part of my new role is looking at productising how we do this.

[Hobosapien]

Will be interesting to see how contracting continues to be affected by the evolution of employment and the 'gig economy'.

Easy to see future solutions by the big players (that shape government rules by their lobbying) where we all are self employed, use an app to offer our services/availability, and the app provider sorts out the tax liabilities and transfers the rest into the person's bank account automatically. Employers no longer have any employees (beyond a core they need long term, which will become smaller as more roles are automated or evolve), so they just pay a rate to the app provider and don't have to worry about payroll, pensions, or any of the other employee rights and benefits.

i.e. the opposite of what Corbyn and the old thinkers are on about.

Who's going to be the one to come up with the app that takes over, Deliveroo?

[ShandyDrinker]

Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

Fair response.

I think it would greatly enhance the sector to move to 'Statement of Works agreements' as you say but from my experience of contracting over the past decade, the number of both clients and agencies who have been prepared to work to this model have been few and far between in part due to the fact that it takes a lot more work for all concerned.

[Andy Hallett]

Depends on your definition of fine?

For agencies I don't expect things will change too much but for the majority of poor sods who will end up being dragged into IR35 whether it is applicable or not will not be fine, assuming of course the direction of travel is applying IR35 outside of the public sector.

Actually I think the market will be just fine, certainly for genuine independent contractors. The issue in recent years is people who really should be temps or employees have been forced into contracting almost as a low cost alternative.

I suspect what will happen is that this cohort will increasingly return to the perm market again as IR35 and other tax measures such as dividend changes and removal of FRVS continue to bite.

We will then see genuine contractors moving to 'Statement of Works agreements. More tightly procured, more risk passed down but also more reward.

[ShandyDrinker]

I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

Depends on your definition of fine?

For agencies I don't expect things will change too much but for the majority of poor sods who will end up being dragged into IR35 whether it is applicable or not will not be fine, assuming of course the direction of travel is applying IR35 outside of the public sector.

[sasguru]

100% yes.

How does that work for you?

[Andy Hallett]

Even without free movement ?

100% yes.

[sasguru]

I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

Even without free movement ?

[Andy Hallett]

I've had the benefit of supporting the flexible labour market across the world. We will be just fine.

[vetran]

Contracting is in rude health if you have the right skills.

HTH! BIDI

yes but not everyone is as accomplished at pole choking as you & MF are.