Reply to: The religion of wahhabism

[NotAllThere]

I can't see the relevance of your statement about Jack and the Beanstalk.

It's quite simple. I'm maintaining that people don't go to war over the interpretation of fairy tales, ergo - religious texts aren't fairy tales. Some other category quite possibly, but not fairy tales.

Some of the ages during which what are now religious texts were written, were quite sophisticated. Certainly give your average university student a run for their money nowadays.

[woohoo]

People tend not to go to war over interpretations of Jack and the Beanstalk.

For the Bible - Bronze Age (possibly), Iron Age, Roman. For the Koran, Byzantine, perhaps?

I can't see the relevance of your statement about Jack and the Beanstalk.

My guess is Oscarose was using stone age as a reference to when humans where considered backward, rather than a specific time period.

[NotAllThere]

Fairy tales, that's all they are.

People tend not to go to war over interpretations of Jack and the Beanstalk.

+1

All the bloodshed throughout history over some nonsense written back in stone ages.

For the Bible - Bronze Age (possibly), Iron Age, Roman. For the Koran, Byzantine, perhaps?

[Paddy]

Mind you, political ideas are at least as bad. Look at how many died thanks to the worst example, Mao Zedong. Actually, Islam is probably a bit less irrational than communism, you can't actually prove it's wrong. Communism has failed over and over again and some loonies still believe it can work.

Capitalism has failed more times than communism, it called recession and depression

[The_Equalizer]

Correct.

There was some research out a while ago that pointed out 2 year olds weren't racist. They had to learn how to be.

Or through experience? If some bu66er punches you in the face, you don't need your mum or dad to point out that they are a nasty bit of work.

[woohoo]

Correct.

There was some research out a while ago that pointed out 2 year olds weren't racist. They had to learn how to be.

So how does this actually help? I'm just wondering if we started educating children differently how this would actually work in practice over the next few generations.

[SueEllen]

All starts with education, be that from family or institution. No one is born with hate or intolerance. Unless they prove that there are markers in the DNA from those generations indoctrinated one way or another.

Correct.

There was some research out a while ago that pointed out 2 year olds weren't racist. They had to learn how to be.

[Hobosapien]

Nice if we went with realities instead of being driven by emotions, religion, ideals etc. I'm afraid any correlation between sense and intelligence is near zero.

All starts with education, be that from family or institution. No one is born with hate or intolerance. Unless they prove that there are markers in the DNA from those generations indoctrinated one way or another.

[xoggoth]

Nice if we went with realities instead of being driven by emotions, religion, ideals etc. I'm afraid any correlation between sense and intelligence is near zero.

[Hobosapien]

There's a lot wrong with human society, from religion to government. Shame that when the worst of the two meet we end up with civilians paying the price as if we really had a choice over what our government does abroad in their own interests not ours.

If it really was as simple as voting Labour or organising a protest march there would be no ongoing problems.

Sometimes I wish aliens would invade then we'd all have a common enemy to focus on, or God was real and actually did something courageous to put a stop to it all, such as actually proving he existed. I think we'll get proof of aliens sooner.

In the meantime I'll continue to look on those brainwashed by religion or politics as being somewhat below par on the intelligence front.

[xoggoth]

Mind you, political ideas are at least as bad. Look at how many died thanks to the worst example, Mao Zedong. Actually, Islam is probably a bit less irrational than communism, you can't actually prove it's wrong. Communism has failed over and over again and some loonies still believe it can work.

[oscarose]

Fairy tales, that's all they are.

+1

All the bloodshed throughout history over some nonsense written back in stone ages.

[woohoo]

Obviously the majority (conservative) view is that scripture being God breathed (which is translated as "from" above), means that it is the Word of God, but that's an interpretive stance. And equally obviously, the phrase has entered the English language as a synonym for scripture/the Bible. However, TheGreenBastard's view is not without support. That verse says scripture is inspired by God. Nowhere is it explicitly stated that scripture is the Word of God. That phrase, when it appears, applies only to Jesus, or when God communicated with individuals.

The main difference theologically between the Bible and the Koran is that men were inspired as they wrote what became the Bible. When Paul wrote a letter to a church or and individual (even Tim), there's no indication that he considered what he wrote to be scripture. That was determined later.

The Koran was dictated to Mohammed by Allah. Mohammed says that every word came directly from Allah. The Koran as a published book must be looked after and treated reverentially, because the book itself is a holy object. The Bible is not, in my experience, considered to be a holy object. It is the words that are in it that are important.

TL;DR - I think there is a fundamental difference in the approach most Christians take towards the Bible and the approach most Muslims take towards the Koran.

Fairy tales, that's all they are.

[NotAllThere]

Ideologically, where does the Bible state it's the word of God in its entirety? "And God said..." doesn't count.

2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is from God and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

Obviously the majority (conservative) view is that scripture being God breathed (which is translated as "from" above), means that it is the Word of God, but that's an interpretive stance. And equally obviously, the phrase has entered the English language as a synonym for scripture/the Bible. However, TheGreenBastard's view is not without support. That verse says scripture is inspired by God. Nowhere is it explicitly stated that scripture is the Word of God. That phrase, when it appears, applies only to Jesus, or when God communicated with individuals.

The main difference theologically between the Bible and the Koran is that men were inspired as they wrote what became the Bible. When Paul wrote a letter to a church or and individual (even Tim), there's no indication that he considered what he wrote to be scripture. That was determined later.

The Koran was dictated to Mohammed by Allah. Mohammed says that every word came directly from Allah. The Koran as a published book must be looked after and treated reverentially, because the book itself is a holy object. The Bible is not, in my experience, considered to be a holy object. It is the words that are in it that are important.

TL;DR - I think there is a fundamental difference in the approach most Christians take towards the Bible and the approach most Muslims take towards the Koran.

[sbakoola]

Morrisey is on the warpath...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...orism-response

I was happy in the haze of a bacon hour
But heaven knows I'm miserable now

I was looking for a bomb, and then I found a bomb
And heaven knows I'm miserable now

In my life
Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

Two bombers entwined pass me by
And heaven knows I'm miserable now

I was looking for a bomb, and then I found a bomb
And heaven knows I'm miserable now

In my life
Oh, why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

What she asked of me at the end of the day
Caliphate would have blushed

"Oh, you've been in the mosque too long" she said
And I naturally fled

In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?

I was happy in the haze of a bacon hour
But heaven knows I'm miserable now

"Oh, you've been in the mosque too long" she said
And I naturally fled

In my life
Oh, why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?