Reply to: Hospital

[NigelJK]

Booking appointment - £145

That there is exactly the issue. If I go for a filling I don't have to pay for making the appt.

When can we start charging royalties for each transaction our software processes?

[Chuck]

I saw an interesting suggestion on how to solve this.

The majority of people who use the service, when they are not entitled to, are from countries that we give aid to. Deduct the cost of all treatment from the aid we give and pass it back to the NHS. It is then up to the countries of origin if they want to do something about health tourism.

[stek]

This is my idea;

1. Ask them to pay or show health insurance.

2. If can't contract their home countries health dept and ask them to pay.

3. If won't send them back on next plane.

4. If becomes an emergency treat them because even visitors are allowed NHS emergency treatment.

I'd agree that some sort of CSI requirement should be implemented.

[vetran]

Healthcare in US is private, so either you show them valid insurance or show the means of paying for treatment, just like any other country where healthcare is private. If you do not have valid health insurance, US hospitals do not treat you, just like how Tesco wont sell you courgettes if you do not have any money on you.

NHS is a different beast in the way its run and the culture. Anyone coming in with proper cause, in this case, heavily pregnant, will be treated and they wont ask for a card, because its a public service.

And there is the problem its free so people take advantage of it.

If we want it to survive we need to stop that.

That £2m would have paid for 500+ care home spaces. 500 free NHS beds.

[fullyautomatix]

My experience with healthcare in the USA (whilst on holidays) is that the first question they will ask is "have you got a credit card"? They dont give a monkeys about your health insurance - they want to get paid. They dont care how urgent it is.

Wife had a dental emergency at the weekend once. They made us give credit card number over the phone before they'd even consider it.

Also, daughter was ill (she was 1 at the time). Again, they didnt give a monkeys until you gave them a credit card to pay.

Why cant we do that in the uk?

Healthcare in US is private, so either you show them valid insurance or show the means of paying for treatment, just like any other country where healthcare is private. If you do not have valid health insurance, US hospitals do not treat you, just like how Tesco wont sell you courgettes if you do not have any money on you.

NHS is a different beast in the way its run and the culture. Anyone coming in with proper cause, in this case, heavily pregnant, will be treated and they wont ask for a card, because its a public service.

[vetran]

Yeah but what do you do when the women is about to give birth or poor sod has an attack of the zombies. You can't just push em out in the street just because they haven't got a credit card.

I'm not being a snowflake on this one, it's just that once they present themselves at the hospital what do you actually do.

You identify the ones entitled. - Photo Drivers license etc.

You ask the remainder for a method of payment or security. If they are visiting they will have a passport.

If they can provide neither. Phone a friend being an option then you have to assume they won't pay or will need encouragement.

You of course need to access their medical records to treat them.

If they have no medical records it is a bit of a clue.

For all except blue light cases you will be waiting a few hours before you are seen. So when you Book in the lady says "Can I see some ID please or a copy of your insurance?" You say I haven't got any on but I will phone someone to bring it in.

The urgent ones that come in via ambulance from the Airport are likely to have an established identity. The other ones the police will want to work out who they are for their paperwork.

Once you start doing it things will get easier.

[woohoo]

My experience with healthcare in the USA (whilst on holidays) is that the first question they will ask is "have you got a credit card"? They dont give a monkeys about your health insurance - they want to get paid. They dont care how urgent it is.

Wife had a dental emergency at the weekend once. They made us give credit card number over the phone before they'd even consider it.

Also, daughter was ill (she was 1 at the time). Again, they didnt give a monkeys until you gave them a credit card to pay.

Why cant we do that in the uk?

Yeah but what do you do when the women is about to give birth or poor sod has an attack of the zombies. You can't just push em out in the street just because they haven't got a credit card.

I'm not being a snowflake on this one, it's just that once they present themselves at the hospital what do you actually do.

[vetran]

My experience with healthcare in the USA (whilst on holidays) is that the first question they will ask is "have you got a credit card"? They dont give a monkeys about your health insurance - they want to get paid. They dont care how urgent it is.

Wife had a dental emergency at the weekend once. They made us give credit card number over the phone before they'd even consider it.

Also, daughter was ill (she was 1 at the time). Again, they didnt give a monkeys until you gave them a credit card to pay.

Why cant we do that in the uk?

Indeed and if you later check out ok then your card doesn't get charged.

Only problem is they would probably create an NHS credit card recharged by how any benefits you get.

[psychocandy]

In the states you cannot leave the country with a health debt so it is possible to do it here.

My experience with healthcare in the USA (whilst on holidays) is that the first question they will ask is "have you got a credit card"? They dont give a monkeys about your health insurance - they want to get paid. They dont care how urgent it is.

Wife had a dental emergency at the weekend once. They made us give credit card number over the phone before they'd even consider it.

Also, daughter was ill (she was 1 at the time). Again, they didnt give a monkeys until you gave them a credit card to pay.

Why cant we do that in the uk?

[vetran]

St Georges hospital isn't actually near the airports or a major train station to them so it's not surprising they haven't checked. I bet most hospitals in the SE where there are ethnic populations that aren't near the airports or a major train station to them don't check patients or weren't until recently....

In short hospital administrators are fecking lazy. If they were disciplined for not checking patients I bet they would do their jobs.

Agree, it seems to be apathy, maybe its a KPI set for each hospital?

% Patients identified as having NHS Entitlement.
Total Costs
Total number
Identification method.

% Patients identified as NOT having NHS Entitlement or not entitlement identified.
Total Costs
Total number


% Non Entitled Patients having cover via chargeback (Broken down by Country)
% Recovered
Total Costs

% Non Entitled patients needing to pay either via Insurance or via other payment.(Broken down by Country)
% recovered Insurance
% Recovered Payment

Total of all medical costs.
Overall total money recovered.
Total number of people still owing
Overall total money not recovered.

[SueEllen]

a Consultant's view, in the wail as well today.

J Meirion Thomas: The scandal of how the NHS falls prey to health tourism | Conservative Home

t was reported that half of the 1783 overseas women who gave birth at St George’s Hospital in 2015-2016 were later found not to be entitled to free NHS care. The hospital conceded that it had been targetted because it didn’t carry out robust eligibility checks. It is highly unlikely that this problem suddenly started in 2015: more likely, it has been endemic at St George’s for years, and has only recently been identified.

Assuming they each cost £2000 that would be $2M enough to pay a couple of people to collect or exclude.

Normal delivery without complications - £1174
Casarian section with complications - £3626
In-patient bed payment - £346-£420 per day
Booking appointment - £145
Follow on appointment - £65-£78

And maternity care is cheap compared to other things.

St Georges hospital isn't actually near the airports or a major train station to them so it's not surprising they haven't checked. I bet most hospitals in the SE where there are ethnic populations that aren't near the airports or a major train station to them don't check patients or weren't until recently....

In short hospital administrators are fecking lazy. If they were disciplined for not checking patients I bet they would do their jobs.

[vetran]

a Consultant's view, in the wail as well today.

J Meirion Thomas: The scandal of how the NHS falls prey to health tourism | Conservative Home

t was reported that half of the 1783 overseas women who gave birth at St George’s Hospital in 2015-2016 were later found not to be entitled to free NHS care. The hospital conceded that it had been targetted because it didn’t carry out robust eligibility checks. It is highly unlikely that this problem suddenly started in 2015: more likely, it has been endemic at St George’s for years, and has only recently been identified.

Assuming they each cost £2000 that would be $2M enough to pay a couple of people to collect or exclude.

Normal delivery without complications - £1174
Casarian section with complications - £3626
In-patient bed payment - £346-£420 per day
Booking appointment - £145
Follow on appointment - £65-£78

And maternity care is cheap compared to other things.

[NigelJK]

That's a one off. But a load of cases are deliberate

Hers was also. IIRC if you are heavily pregnant in this country they won't let you on the plane in the first place.

[WTFH]

Doesn't happen, the lefties and bremoaners told us.

Even though it does, but it's clearly an alternative fact.

What percentage of these people coming here for health tourism are from within the EU? (Since you choose to claim that "bremoaners" have told us)

[vetran]

Talk about a state protecting the needs of its citizens.

FTFY