Reply to: Dame Louise Casey - racist or common sense?

[Platypus]

Racial segregation 'growing in UK', Dame Louise Casey warns - BBC News

Well?

Not true. BBC R4 said so this morning, and they proved it by speaking to some muslim women who not only spoke English, but said their men were nice. And a muslim man said that separation of the sexes isn't misogyny but a matter of respect [for women].

So there.

[TheGreenBastard]

In the Ottoman Empire, Christians and Muslims lived side by side, mostly peacefully, and that all ended after WW1 with huge massacres on both sides. Ukraine is a more recent example.

Not in the fairy tale fashion you imply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...Ottoman_Empire

Let's ignore the brutal conquering and reduced rights / forced conversions shall we, to suit the narrative.

[filthy1980]

To be fair the churches where I've been a guest at work out if they get you in and show how wonderful they are, they can probably convert you.

So allowing someone who isn't not the same faith to get married to their partner of the faith in that church is likely aimed at ensuring any children of the marriage are of that particular denomination/sect. And oddly enough it does work...

the interfaith marriage thing in Sikhism is a tricky one

I'm from a Sikh background but not religious in anyway

the decree is meant to be that the Sikh Marriage ceremony should be conducted amongst two Sikhs

there are some gurdwara's who follow this doctrine and will refuse to marry someone of a different faith in a Sikh ceremony, others will take a pragmatic view and realise that half of the marriages they do conduct between culturally Sikh couples, shouldn't technically qualify either as they are Sikhs by name not practice

protestations are also fuelled by Gurdwara politics, there are always rival factions looking to gain control over a ruling committee, and will use any excuse to belittle those currently in charge in an attempt to get their own guy/girl elected in order to get their hands on the considerable gurdwara coffers

[SueEllen]

you mean it hasn't happened recently in christianity?

To be fair the churches where I've been a guest at work out if they get you in and show how wonderful they are, they can probably convert you.

So allowing someone who isn't not the same faith to get married to their partner of the faith in that church is likely aimed at ensuring any children of the marriage are of that particular denomination/sect. And oddly enough it does work...

[filthy1980]

Bleedin obvious to anyone growing up in 80s Brum.

Only took thirty years for politicians to catch up !

not true anymore

even the islamic's can't stay away from the BullRing

[vetran]

Not the same. If the church including ministers and elders accepts that you and your partner can get married there the congregation who worship there don't protest.

you mean it hasn't happened recently in christianity?

[vetran]

Seems to be reasonable grounds for protest if the non-Sikh wasn't converting.

he was a Hindu so not that far away.

as you say a peaceful protest seems reasonable if a little rude.

[xoggoth]

Even when ethnic groups do well and groups coexist peacefully, separation is not a good idea. It only takes some major event and tensions can erupt. In the Ottoman Empire, Christians and Muslims lived side by side, mostly peacefully, and that all ended after WW1 with huge massacres on both sides. Ukraine is a more recent example.

Some groups like Indian Sikhs, Hindus and Chinese do well in the UK and cause no more problem than other groups, however defined, but can one totally rule out future conflicts with India or China? If that happens and they feel more kinship with those countries than the UK then things could change.

Not suggesting that they should throw away harmless aspects of their cultures but encouraging more integration and mixing should be a priority.

[SueEllen]

assuming the non sikh didn't convert its the same as getting married in a christian church as an unbeliever some sects dislike those.

Not the same. If the church including ministers and elders accepts that you and your partner can get married there the congregation who worship there don't protest.

[LondonManc]

Assuming the non sikh didn't convert its the same as getting married in a christian church as an unbeliever some sects dislike those.

Seems to be reasonable grounds for protest if the non-Sikh wasn't converting.

[vetran]

Islam being a worldwide religion means there isn't one Muslim group of immigrants.

Some Muslims in the UK are converts.

Others come from different countries in Africa e.g. Egypt, Morocco, Somalia, the Gambia, Nigeria as well as other countries in Asia like Malaysia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I haven't met any US converts in the UK but I suspect some exist.

So if you are talking about a specific culture where the main religion is Islam you should state at least the country they come from.

Why the Sikhs come from varying countries and they are generally an asset to the UK, as indeed are many moderate muslims - Taxis would be a lot rarer without them.

[vetran]

Yes, the same group. I worked with a woman whose father told her she could get married to anyone but a BMW (black Muslim or white).

Yes, that's wrong but she was working. Contrast that with the Muslim group of immigrants, they see us as unclean, they want us to submit to their God, they're homophobic they're sexist, they seem to view vulnerable white girls as their chattel the problems seem to be a great deal bigger.

I worked with a lady who said if she wanted to give her mother a heart attack she could take home a black muslim boyfriend, her parents would accept a white boy.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-sikh-religion

“More and more young people are becoming interested in the true interpretation of what it means to be Sikh,” said Singh. “The elder generation arrived [in the UK] and fitted their faith round the need to assimilate, survive and to get work. This led to a stripping back of the spiritual nature of what it means to be a Sikh to a series of symbols.

“Now younger people want to reclaim Sikhism as a deeply spiritual, peaceful and encompassing religion and this is why we are seeing these protests.”

Armed officers detained 55 men on suspicion of aggravated trespass after being called to the temple in Leamington Spa at about 6.45am on Sunday. On Monday police said all but one of the “bladed weapons” seized were ceremonial.

The Sikh Federation UK, the largest political group representing Sikhs in the UK, called on the police to apologise for its “disproportionate” response. It said those arrested had walked into the temple, or gurdwara, to protest against an interfaith marriage being carried out as a Sikh religious ceremony.

Armed officers detained 55 men on suspicion of aggravated trespass after being called to the temple in Leamington Spa at about 6.45am on Sunday. On Monday police said all but one of the “bladed weapons” seized were ceremonial.

The Sikh Federation UK, the largest political group representing Sikhs in the UK, called on the police to apologise for its “disproportionate” response. It said those arrested had walked into the temple, or gurdwara, to protest against an interfaith marriage being carried out as a Sikh religious ceremony.

Sikh Youth UK said the protest was entirely peaceful and said those involved had no objection to interfaith marriages, but objected rather to a non-Sikh taking part in the specific religious ceremony at the gurdwara.

assuming the non sikh didn't convert its the same as getting married in a christian church as an unbeliever some sects dislike those.

[SueEllen]

Yes, the same group. I worked with a woman whose father told her she could get married to anyone but a BMW (black Muslim or white).

Yes, that's wrong but she was working. Contrast that with the Muslim group of immigrants, they see us as unclean, they want us to submit to their God, they're homophobic they're sexist, they seem to view vulnerable white girls as their chattel the problems seem to be a great deal bigger.

Islam being a worldwide religion means there isn't one Muslim group of immigrants.

Some Muslims in the UK are converts.

Others come from different countries in Africa e.g. Egypt, Morocco, Somalia, the Gambia, Nigeria as well as other countries in Asia like Malaysia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I haven't met any US converts in the UK but I suspect some exist.

So if you are talking about a specific culture where the main religion is Islam you should state at least the country they come from.

[LondonManc]

I suppose terrorising and threatening to beat the carp out of people of all ages who attend as guests is as well.

Yep, that's your EDL level of protest

Jews (at least the strict ones) don't marry outside of their own community either. The lower the involvement of religion, the more tolerant people seem to be. Fancy that.

[The_Equalizer]

You mean like certain Northern Irish people use to do?

And still do don't you mean? Might be worth noting that there's still no real integration in Northern Ireland.