Reply to: Bicycle Lorry deaths

[vetran]

Cycling is covered specifically rules 59 - 82

Lines covered by 140

I cannot see anywhere in the highway code that grants that protection that you are assuming exists.

and because of that confusion lots of cyclists are getting maimed and killed. I think its time that the high way code stipulate your assumption as a fact. Because then finally have a solid structure that everyone can understand.

One other point.

Bikes are tremendously effective at covering ground maybe half the trouble is the fact that bikes regularly travel faster than their optimum stopping distance.

If I am on a dual carriageway in the outside line I need to MSM to change to the left hand lane, if I failed to do so I would be considered at fault. The fact one of the carriage ways only accommodates bikes doesn't change this inherent behaviour.

I would love to see this stipulated.

Bicycle stopping distances are surprisingly short compared to cars, the accidents I see are not normally because the cyclist fails to stop its because they are physically hit by a car coming into their path. I frequently stop in a car length as that is all I have.

[LondonManc]

So basically don't drive or ride like an arse and we'll all be OK? Look out for each other, or, to put it another way, drive/ride with due care and attention.

I still believe if you made drivers cycle even just once in a busy town, many would get one hell of a wake-up call and treat cyclists very different.

I don't believe people are out to harm others, but there's a large percentage of drivers who get behind the wheel of their car and literally just switch off - they just point and drive and are too absorbed in the music/their phone/their makeup/daydreaming to notice much of what's going on around them. I see it when I'm driving and its even more apparent when cycling where you can often see drivers about to do something really stupid and it just unfolds before you, hopefully with enough time to avoid whatever it is they're about to do.

The problem is inconsiderate w*nkers, regardless of whether they're driving, cycling or just being allowed to mingle with the rest of us in everyday life.

Anyone can use a bike - you simply walk into Halfords and buy one and off you go.

You need training and a licence to drive a HGV. They're generally drivers compared to "white van man".

[bobspud]

I read that as if you are on a dedicated lane you are longer part of the road like being on a slip road.

Cycling is covered specifically rules 59 - 82

Lines covered by 140

I cannot see anywhere in the highway code that grants that protection that you are assuming exists.

and because of that confusion lots of cyclists are getting maimed and killed. I think its time that the high way code stipulate your assumption as a fact. Because then finally have a solid structure that everyone can understand.

One other point.

Bikes are tremendously effective at covering ground maybe half the trouble is the fact that bikes regularly travel faster than their optimum stopping distance.

[ascender]

So now to recap what is supposed to happen :

1) as a motorist I must not overtake a user of any protected lane when I am about to turn across it

2) as a motorist I must watch out for the bikes, buses or wheelchairs the are in the immediate area when I signal and begin the manoeuvre to turn left

However:

3) as a cyclist approaching the motorists car that is signaling to turn left you are now not permitted to undertake that car and must make adjustments to your course to avoid an accident.

So basically don't drive or ride like an arse and we'll all be OK? Look out for each other, or, to put it another way, drive/ride with due care and attention.

I still believe if you made drivers cycle even just once in a busy town, many would get one hell of a wake-up call and treat cyclists very different.

I don't believe people are out to harm others, but there's a large percentage of drivers who get behind the wheel of their car and literally just switch off - they just point and drive and are too absorbed in the music/their phone/their makeup/daydreaming to notice much of what's going on around them. I see it when I'm driving and its even more apparent when cycling where you can often see drivers about to do something really stupid and it just unfolds before you, hopefully with enough time to avoid whatever it is they're about to do.

The problem is inconsiderate w*nkers, regardless of whether they're driving, cycling or just being allowed to mingle with the rest of us in everyday life.

[vetran]

Thank you for finding that might I now show you the rule that accompanies it:

Cycling highway code uk - The Highway Code

It clearly states that cyclists must not travel down the inside of a vehicle turning left...

Confusing isn't it?

So now to recap what is supposed to happen :

1) as a motorist I must not overtake a user of any protected lane when I am about to turn across it

2) as a motorist I must watch out for the bikes, buses or wheelchairs the are in the immediate area when I signal and begin the manoeuvre to turn left

However:

3) as a cyclist approaching the motorists car that is signaling to turn left you are now not permitted to undertake that car and must make adjustments to your course to avoid an accident.

I read that as if you are on a dedicated lane you are longer part of the road like being on a slip road.

Unless there are give way signs on the cycle lane then cyclists have priority as they are continuing. This is the same as a right turn or any other manouvre other road users do not have to give way unless they are instructed to. No whether that is wise or safe is another matter.

[LondonManc]

so its young female whippersnappers

Drivers % that failed to spot cyclists

Sat nav drivers 23.7
Non-sat nav drivers 19.0
Female drivers 25.6
Male drivers 17.1
Drivers aged 20-29 31.1
Drivers aged 30-39 20.7
Drivers aged 40-49 21.6
Drivers aged 50-59 20.9
All drivers 22.0

scary!


How many drivers cycle? And how many cyclists drive?

15% of full driving licence holders cycle more than twice a month; 18% cycle once a year to twice a month (ATT 0216);
Around 80% of cyclists hold a driving licence (DfT Press Release)

very interesting thanks!

The most interesting stat would be to see would be the split of accidents where cyclists are drivers or not.

[vetran]

Interesting!

It would be interesting to know the above figures for lorry drivers. And also what is "failed to spot"? Does it mean have ever not spotted? Maybe women are just more honest than men?

I have generally thought women drivers are less dangerous towards cyclists than men. Except elderly women - but then elderly men are as bad.

I'm guessing that the young are less experienced and women suffer more from spatial awareness issues (studies support this). I did really expect testosterone driven accidents and for young men to be worse.

The lorry drivers details are in the link WTFH supplied and a couple of the other stories.

[SueEllen]

Interesting!

It would be interesting to know the above figures for lorry drivers. And also what is "failed to spot"? Does it mean have ever not spotted? Maybe women are just more honest than men?

I have generally thought women drivers are less dangerous towards cyclists than men. Except elderly women - but then elderly men are as bad.

"Less dangerous" simply means less likely to kill or seriously injure you. The other road stats around on women drivers and accidents back this up.

[BrilloPad]

so its young female whippersnappers

Drivers % that failed to spot cyclists

Sat nav drivers 23.7
Non-sat nav drivers 19.0
Female drivers 25.6
Male drivers 17.1
Drivers aged 20-29 31.1
Drivers aged 30-39 20.7
Drivers aged 40-49 21.6
Drivers aged 50-59 20.9
All drivers 22.0

scary!


How many drivers cycle? And how many cyclists drive?

15% of full driving licence holders cycle more than twice a month; 18% cycle once a year to twice a month (ATT 0216);
Around 80% of cyclists hold a driving licence (DfT Press Release)

very interesting thanks!

Interesting!

It would be interesting to know the above figures for lorry drivers. And also what is "failed to spot"? Does it mean have ever not spotted? Maybe women are just more honest than men?

I have generally thought women drivers are less dangerous towards cyclists than men. Except elderly women - but then elderly men are as bad.

[bobspud]

Rule 182:



And more emphatically, 183:



Using the road - Road junctions (170 to 183) - The Highway Code

Thank you for finding that might I now show you the rule that accompanies it:

Cycling highway code uk - The Highway Code

It clearly states that cyclists must not travel down the inside of a vehicle turning left...

Confusing isn't it?

So now to recap what is supposed to happen :

1) as a motorist I must not overtake a user of any protected lane when I am about to turn across it

2) as a motorist I must watch out for the bikes, buses or wheelchairs the are in the immediate area when I signal and begin the manoeuvre to turn left

However:

3) as a cyclist approaching the motorists car that is signaling to turn left you are now not permitted to undertake that car and must make adjustments to your course to avoid an accident.

[vetran]

There is research like this linky and information like this linky which explains why you aren't seen when riding a bike. Motorcyclists are more aware of this as they are taught that people aren't looking out for them.

Oh and this is interesting as well linky

so its young female whippersnappers

Drivers % that failed to spot cyclists

Sat nav drivers 23.7
Non-sat nav drivers 19.0
Female drivers 25.6
Male drivers 17.1
Drivers aged 20-29 31.1
Drivers aged 30-39 20.7
Drivers aged 40-49 21.6
Drivers aged 50-59 20.9
All drivers 22.0

scary!


How many drivers cycle? And how many cyclists drive?

15% of full driving licence holders cycle more than twice a month; 18% cycle once a year to twice a month (ATT 0216);
Around 80% of cyclists hold a driving licence (DfT Press Release)

very interesting thanks!

[vetran]

And a perfect example of the tulip driving you need to watch out for on the aforementioned CS2, with video:

Video: Driver left hooks cyclist on upgraded Cycle Superhighway | road.cc

bloody Romanians coming over here and getting in the way of our crap drivers

there but for the grace of the spaghetti monster go all of us...

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

And a perfect example of the tulip driving you need to watch out for on the aforementioned CS2, with video:

Video: Driver left hooks cyclist on upgraded Cycle Superhighway | road.cc

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Still waiting for the actual text to back your assumption up but I will be waiting for ever because it is not what the code

Rule 182:

Turning left

182
Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.

And more emphatically, 183:

183
When turning

keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction.

Using the road - Road junctions (170 to 183) - The Highway Code

[SueEllen]

Yeah foot came before wheel so at a basic subconscious level foot beats wheel

Or more likely the Green Cross Code adverts weren't seen by them due to their young or old age, or being brought up outside the UK.