Reply to: Brexit Economics Lesson 1 - Who has the real power in negotiations

[vetran]

So how much of an items production has to be in Britain for it to be British?

Take JLR - Designed here, production lines designed here and most of the manufacture is here. Soon to be supplemented by a huge new Factory in China supplying a 'not for UK' XF to the far east market (with help from the Chinese Gvmt). So is the new XF a British car made in China?

well for the purposes of tariffs and taxes I suppose its where its considered to be from. One assembled in UK = British Made, one in China = Chinese made.

If Abdullah Jihadi Hussain is British then why can't Nissan be?

[CretinWatcher]

Can I propose a change in username to SasCretin? Your use of sockies really is very tedious indeed.

I might retire some of my Brexiteer sockies, like "original PM","bobspud","vetran".
I fear I've overdone the stupidity level so that they are barely credible.

[sal]

So how much of an items production has to be in Britain for it to be British?

Take JLR - Designed here, production lines designed here and most of the manufacture is here. Soon to be supplemented by a huge new Factory in China supplying a 'not for UK' XF to the far east market (with help from the Chinese Gvmt). So is the new XF a British car made in China?

Doesn't really matter, all the profits are probably funnelled through the Cayman's etc. One might argue there are income taxes and NI paid, but they are offset by the inevitable pension fund bail out in the future (reference - Tata Steel)

[NigelJK]

So how much of an items production has to be in Britain for it to be British?

Take JLR - Designed here, production lines designed here and most of the manufacture is here. Soon to be supplemented by a huge new Factory in China supplying a 'not for UK' XF to the far east market (with help from the Chinese Gvmt). So is the new XF a British car made in China?

[jamesbrown]

Can I propose a change in username to SasCretin? Your use of sockies really is very tedious indeed.

[vetran]

I was referring to old British Leyland really; I'd forgotten that Rover still do sort of exist.

The global success that is the BMW Mini is built in Oxford more than anything because it's an iconic British brand and the Germans recognised the marketing value in being able to say it was British. Shame it took BMW to make it such a success.

Indeed similar to Rolls Royce & Bentley.

We could of been world beaters again if we had stepped up. A Roller at £200k would be very saleable.

[VectraMan]

But Rover are owned by Tata, so ultimately the profits from Rover (and Jaguar Land Rover) all end up going to India.

I was referring to old British Leyland really; I'd forgotten that Rover still do sort of exist.

The global success that is the BMW Mini is built in Oxford more than anything because it's an iconic British brand and the Germans recognised the marketing value in being able to say it was British. Shame it took BMW to make it such a success.

[MrMarkyMark]

The one thing we do well is supply luxury goods to the rest of the world.
We make some of the best shoes in the world, to take one example.
Fishing rods, to take another.

However, in reality, we make feck all general consumer stuff.

[WTFH]

so all premium cars.

Not sure Mr Mondeo is going to afford them.

All the affordable brands were bought by foreigners cause they saw the potential to make easy money. What's left is a bunch of car enthusiasts who are selling (in total) around 6,000 cars a year globally (McLaren being responsible for over half the sales)


If you wanted to make an affordable British car, it would need serious government backing, i.e. a national-owned manufacturer.
...but that would be too socialist to be allowed, therefore the British automotive industry is dead.

[vetran]

But Rover are owned by Tata, so ultimately the profits from Rover (and Jaguar Land Rover) all end up going to India.


You want to buy British, here's the list:


AC Cars
Ariel
Briggs Automotive Company
Bristol Cars
Ginetta Cars
McLaren Automotive
Morgan Motor Company
Noble Automotive
TVR Motor Company

so all premium cars.

Not sure Mr Mondeo is going to afford them.

[WTFH]

And you can't stop money going abroad. If you're going to complain about migrants working here and sending money back to Poland then you must also complain about someone here buying a BMW rather than a Rover. And then suddenly you're not trading with anyone. It's not better to have less money moving around; it's better to have more.

But Rover are owned by Tata, so ultimately the profits from Rover (and Jaguar Land Rover) all end up going to India.


You want to buy British, here's the list:


AC Cars
Ariel
Briggs Automotive Company
Bristol Cars
Ginetta Cars
McLaren Automotive
Morgan Motor Company
Noble Automotive
TVR Motor Company

[GB9]

Yep. As I said I can understand why some people want protectionism. The thing about the EU is that it tries to achieve equality between the members so that ultimately nobody is being undercut. If we have free trade with China, as may happen, then UK companies have no hope against Chinese companies willing to work their workers 12 hours a day with poor safety and no care for the environment; all things we would never accept. The EU has rules about all those things so that we can have free trade with them on fair terms. Brexiters call all these sorts of things political interference, but really it's about trade.

And you can't stop money going abroad. If you're going to complain about migrants working here and sending money back to Poland then you must also complain about someone here buying a BMW rather than a Rover. And then suddenly you're not trading with anyone. It's not better to have less money moving around; it's better to have more.

Don't agree with all of it but well made.

[CretinWatcher]

Probably for the first time in recent history UK will have to negotiate as the weaker side in the negotiations

Nah we can send over an aircraft carrier and stick it up Johnny Foreigner.
Oh wait, we don't have any at the mo.
Maybe we can borrow one from the French ......

Lucky its 4.30 I'm getting this belly chuckle that never stops that the morons on CUK never fail to provide.

[VectraMan]

This is a bit stark but some of it I agree with.

Can you not understand why people want to protect their income and standard of living though? Up against an unfair cost base and with much of the money earned by immigrants from around the world being repatriated to their country? Money leaving our economy which then decreases as a result.

Yep. As I said I can understand why some people want protectionism. The thing about the EU is that it tries to achieve equality between the members so that ultimately nobody is being undercut. If we have free trade with China, as may happen, then UK companies have no hope against Chinese companies willing to work their workers 12 hours a day with poor safety and no care for the environment; all things we would never accept. The EU has rules about all those things so that we can have free trade with them on fair terms. Brexiters call all these sorts of things political interference, but really it's about trade.

And you can't stop money going abroad. If you're going to complain about migrants working here and sending money back to Poland then you must also complain about someone here buying a BMW rather than a Rover. And then suddenly you're not trading with anyone. It's not better to have less money moving around; it's better to have more.

[sal]

Not a problem, instead of 200k Asian and 100k EU immigrants we will get 300k Asian immigrants from now on. Most of these people are coming here to work and actually find work or even start their own business. Of course there is small subset that comes here to abuse the system and claim benefits, but i highly doubt the proportion is much different than the Brits doing the same.

Instead of fixing it's own problem, UK tipically shifts the blame to the EU as the source of all evil. EU is confederacy every major decision needs to be approved by ALL member states including the UK. So someone from UK singed, but some how it's not his fault it's the evil EU oppressor.

One of the goals of the EU is to equalise living standards across Europe. The motives here are not entirely altruistic. Until you have a large disparity between the East and West Europe East Europeans will whatever it takes to migrate and find a better life. Restrict them too much and you get illegal immigration with all the crime associated with it. Think of the Prohibition in the US, see how that one turned out.

Probably for the first time in recent history UK will have to negotiate as the weaker side in the negotiations