Reply to: Agile - at what point do you just tell someone to take a hike?

[vetran]

I tried, I was 'invited' with enthusiasm to join the meeting. Give it a few weeks, see if my extension comes through

Maybe you are 'eye candy' to stop them falling asleep?

[NibblyPig]

Nearly half a day of invoicing while doing nothing.

Unfortunately, half a day invoicing while sitting perfectly still in a potted seat, unable to do anything, trying to stay awake and look interested in front of 4 permie devs, the person that hired me, and the person representing the business needs who already dislikes devs... for almost three hours ...

I'd normally inform the folk in this type of business knowledge "peacockery" that I'm not going to contribute anything of value to this exercise and excuse myself thus giving me time to deliver some value elsewhere, normally id go for a tulip.

I tried, I was 'invited' with enthusiasm to join the meeting. Give it a few weeks, see if my extension comes through

[OnceStonedRose]

Had a three hour sprint planning meeting, during which I didn't say a single word and I chanted shrimpys mantra in my head to stay sane.

Instead of estimating tasks, it was the product owner and associated parties trying to plan out what they actually wanted.

So I was just watching two people argue and discuss stuff.

We're so agile.

I'd normally inform the folk in this type of business knowledge "peacockery" that I'm not going to contribute anything of value to this exercise and excuse myself thus giving me time to deliver some value elsewhere, normally id go for a tulip.

[SueEllen]

Had a three hour sprint planning meeting, during which I didn't say a single word and I chanted shrimpys mantra in my head to stay sane.

Instead of estimating tasks, it was the product owner and associated parties trying to plan out what they actually wanted.

So I was just watching two people argue and discuss stuff.

We're so agile.

Nearly half a day of invoicing while doing nothing.

[DimPrawn]

Spot on. My current gig is the first truly Agile/Fragile place I have worked. My "Manager" and "Architect" use it as an excuse not to do any design work, requirements gathering, or measurement of progress. Just do "Some Stuff" please they tell me.

Unless something is visible to the end-user it doesn't get done - stability improvements, monitoring etc. Don't bother then wonder why we look like plonkers when they stuff fails

Last client co had this same issue. Story points were around what the stakeholders want. Shiny buttons etc. No design into scalability, reliability, extendability, maintainability, etc.

But all good, means can start it all over again in a few months time. Kerrrrrrrrrrching!

[NibblyPig]

Had a three hour sprint planning meeting, during which I didn't say a single word and I chanted shrimpys mantra in my head to stay sane.

Instead of estimating tasks, it was the product owner and associated parties trying to plan out what they actually wanted.

So I was just watching two people argue and discuss stuff.

We're so agile.

[LondonManc]

Spot on. My current gig is the first truly Agile/Fragile place I have worked. My "Manager" and "Architect" use it as an excuse not to do any design work, requirements gathering, or measurement of progress. Just do "Some Stuff" please they tell me.

Unless something is visible to the end-user it doesn't get done - stability improvements, monitoring etc. Don't bother then wonder why we look like plonkers when they stuff fails

We are doing it wrong after all then. Why worry about deliverables and accountability or even standards if you can just decide that you're doing it agile and show the user "some stuff". Agile Prophet here I come.

[JoJoGabor]

As a fully agile trained PM (amongst many other things) I have found that people use 'Agile' instead of 'we have no requirements and no idea what we are doing but lets keep doing something'

And because there are no requirements it looks like 'nothing' is being done because there is nothing to judge results against.

If a project is done truly as an Agile project then it can reap rewards but too often senior mgmt. and exec's see Agile as an excuse to keep changing requirements because 'that part has not been built yet' - completely oblivious to the fact that just because the visible UI has not been built it does not mean the underlying infrastructure has not been built.

But hey ho keep invoicing etc

Spot on. My current gig is the first truly Agile/Fragile place I have worked. My "Manager" and "Architect" use it as an excuse not to do any design work, requirements gathering, or measurement of progress. Just do "Some Stuff" please they tell me.

Unless something is visible to the end-user it doesn't get done - stability improvements, monitoring etc. Don't bother then wonder why we look like plonkers when they stuff fails

[LondonManc]

Our 3rd party dev team have requested to story point doing the story points! We are having a nickel and dime discussion over every single task they perform and they want to point it up and charge for the lot.

Its good here

Their principal consultant must be earning a fortune.

[Mincepie]

Our 3rd party dev team have requested to story point doing the story points! We are having a nickel and dime discussion over every single task they perform and they want to point it up and charge for the lot.

Its good here

[DimPrawn]

Don't fight the agile bandwagon, it's the hot buzzword. Attend your standups and play your planning poker like a pro.

Invoice, invoice, invoice!
Renewal, renewal, renewal!

Chant these words over and over in your head at the scrum sessions.

[Jaws]

Current project I'm working on is being delivered over 6 months later than the client originally expected it and no-one seems to give a crap because boxes are being moved occasionally, it's been hard adapting to this version of agile but I'm beginning to see how useful it can be as a renewal provider.

[WTFH]

The latest corporate IT PM (based in the US) at ClientCo is heavily into SCOR. I've not seen it used in over a decade. Works for business, not so well for IT.

[Dactylion]

Agile should be about getting rid of the process and managers and letting the developers get on with what they're good at. Unfortunately all the people with a vested interest in adding overhead saw it as an opportunity to add lots more overhead in the form of process and managers. If you're going on a training course you're already doing it wrong.

And yes the idea of pair programming fills me with horror too. If we all had to share a computer with somebody else all day CUK's post count would seriously plummet.

ROFPML.... You must be a developer!!

Good* process and control and even good* management should will improve the overall result, over bad P&C and particularly no P&C.
In much the same way as having good developers improves the end result over having an infinite number of monkeys sat in front of keyboards.

* Good is the key word though.
Bad, redundant, misapplied, irrelevant P&C and Mgt won't add value to the party.
Arguably bad, redundant, misapplied and irrelevant P&C and Mgt MIGHT be salvageable by good developers, whereas tip top and brilliant P&C and Mgt won't be able to compensate for monkey devs.

Agile, whatever the buzz word is supposed to mean, isn't inherently good or bad,
nor are more traditional models. Both, and all flavours in between, have their place and can be done successfully both both/all can also be FUBAR'd

In my experience Agile is often only implemented as a title/buzzword, not even with a clear concept, and is normally tulipe.
but the same is true of:
ITIL
Waterfall
Kanban
Lean
Xp
RAD
etc etc

[DodgyAgent]

I quite like a "fair pair"